147 grain HST in 3 inch XD9??

[rem44m]

Does anyone have any useful info or links out there showing that the 147 grain HST reliably expand out of a 3 inch barrel? I've chronoed them at 937 fps average out of my XD9 Subcompact and wonder if that is enough speed to effectively expand. What is the bullet constructions velocity threshold?

This load is my carry load for my G26 and I'm impressed with the info I've been able to find regarding the 147 grain HST at 1000 fps which is what they do out of my G26. But it leaves the question is 930-940 fps "enough"? Any help is appreciated.

 

[918v]

Of course it is. But if you want 1000 FPS get the +P version.

 

[rem44m]

I can't find the +p version in lgs any suggestion of good online sites?

 

[918v]

Buying HST is like bidding on eBay. You have to be in the right place at the right time and snipe that sucka.

I recommend you check policehq.com frequently. Once in a while they'll get a case and it is gone within minutes.

But another thing you should consider is this round tends to overexpand/underpenetrate, so the reduced velocity would be a plus, for me anyway.

 

[Casefull]

I handload 147g hornady xtp's for my pf9 and get them up to 1000 fps but I do not think it is worth it. 900fps is plenty with the 147g. It is not that far behind a weak 45acp load and with a short barrel you can only burn so much powder before the round exits.

 

[918v]

Here, I found you some 147gr HST+P:

http://www.kylesgunshop.com/store.php?seller=KylesGunshop&navt1=50216&pd=2241009

http://www.kylesgunshop.com/store.php?seller=KylesGunshop&navt1=50216&pd=2241010

 

[KenB22]

Why do you say the 147 HST tends to over expand and under penetrate?

 

[918v]

Because the gel tests show them to expand more than other 147s and penetrate less than other 147s. The reason people buy 147s over 124s is the extra 3" or so of penetration they offer over the lighter weights. In addition, 147 HSTs penetrate less the higher the velcity. The +P penetrates less than the standard load.

 

[NG VI]

Because the gel tests show them to expand more than other 147s and penetrate less than other 147s. The reason people buy 147s over 124s is the extra 3" or so of penetration they offer over the lighter weights. In addition, 147 HSTs penetrate less the higher the velcity. The +P penetrates less than the standard load.

Just because they expand more and penetrate less than other 147s doesn't mean they are under penetrating or over expanding. They are penetrating to a pretty well-controlled depth, and they do it with more expansion than any other bullet, even the little fast ones that have such a great reputation for expansion. They generally penetrate about 13 inches, which is a pretty good number.

People don't just buy 147s for deeper penetration, they buy them for more reliable performance and all the benefits of giving the bullet designers the most possible material to work with, and because they're great for shorter barreled guns.

 

[918v]

I disagree with your rather generic position. 147s penetrate more than 124s. That is why people buy them. Otherwise it would be stupid to give up 20% of the velocity if the penetration and expansions remained the same.

As far as underpenetration, the HSTs do in fact penetrate less than other 147s. Therefore, as far as 147 JHP bullets go, the HSTs underpenetrate. OK?

 

[rem44m]

Thank you 918v for the link.

 

[KenB22]

As far as underpenetration, the HSTs do in fact penetrate less than other 147s. Therefore, as far as 147 JHP bullets go, the HSTs underpenetrate. OK?

That's a funny way to use the term "under-penetrate" That's why I asked. Under and over penetration are usually referenced in terms of a standard like the 12" standard that has been generally adopted by LE. In that sense, NG VI is correct. The 147 HST do meet the threshold for penetration while expanding more than most. They seem to be one of, if not the best, 9mm loads out there today.

 

[918v]

I'm a funny kind of guy.

But seriously, if 124s generally penetrate about 12" and 147s generally penetrate about 15", then why would anyone buy a 147 that penetrates 12"? Why give up the velocity advantage for a zero gain in benefits?

 

[NG VI]

What? You are the first person I've seen assign an arbitrary penetration depth to different bullet weights. You know as well as anyone that it's the bullet deign that makes the most difference. Even the 115 grain Hornady XTP will penetrate 15-16", while the 147 HST will easily do 12" and regularly get to 13", and the light Barnes bullets are known to be good penetrators even while showing decent expansion.

The mass is one benefit, velocity is a constantly decreasing variable, as is energy, and neither of them are reliable aids to stopping. Bullet mass decreases variables and gives designers more material to work with as far as final expansion goes, and they can get more expansion out of a heavier bullet while still reaching the penetration depth required of modern duty/defense ammo.

 

[918v]

Arbitrary? Not at all.

Do you know what generally speaking means? It means that while a 115 XPB penetrates 15", all the other offerings in that weight do not.

 

[NG VI]

Right, but the 115 XTP isn't said to overpenetrate because it is a deeper penetrator than any other reliably expanding 115 grain bullet and almost all of the heavier reliably expanding bullets. It's said to be a deep penetrator, because it is. It goes deeper than most people feel is strictly neccessary for the given target, which is adult males.

Whether a bullet is considered to over or under penetrate is 100% tied to the target in mind, not the weight of the bullet. If a bullet consistently makes 24" of penetration, but the animal you intend to shoot with it is a rhinocerous, you would say that bullet is not a deep enough penetrator, because on the given target it will almost certainly underpenetrate.

For people, using service pistols, the generally accepted penetration depth is 12", arbitrary, right, wrong, or just adequate, that's what it is. Any bullet that goes a little deeper is fine, any bullet that manages to get 18 or 20 inches deep is safe to assume will overpenetrate if shot into a human being. A bullet that makes 11" or less can pretty safely be called an underpenetrator, because from the FBI's research, it doesn't go quite deep enough to reliably make it through extraneous material like arms or a heavily muscled person unless the shot is straight on.