158 SWC bullet question

[Keith G]

First post, long time gatherer of knowledge from the forum. I shoot a 357 Single Action revolver, shooting mostly 38's at targets. Most of my shooting is in the 25-75 yard range. Just getting into reloading and settled on starting with Trail Boss powder for the first few hundred for it's difficulty in double charging, then going to Bullseye. CCI Primers and a Lee Classic Turret press.

Bullet question. The Acme 158 grain LSWC seems like a good deal. But a shop showed me these Swamp Popper bullets the other day, and they seem interesting. Any thoughts as to one vs the other. No real price difference, but the Swamp Poppers is a small outfit, and I'm a sucker for supporting the little guy. Here's a video about the coating they use. Due to my lack of knowledge, I'm tempted to go with the Acme, but figured it's worth a question.

Thanks.

 

[Blue68f100]

Things to be aware of when shooting lead, fit is key. Do you know the size of the cylinder throats on your revolver? If not you need to slug the cylinders or use pin gauges to determine size. These can not not be smaller than your barrel throat. If so your setting your self up for leading. Also shooting mouse fart loads require the use of soft lead < 12 bhn. Now most coatings used on bullets eliminate the leading due to fit, act more like jacketed. I have not heard any info on the coating they are using. Sorry can't help you there. I would not start with TB, go ahead and start with BE. Or if you want something cleaner WST.

 

[k4swb]

I've shot a lot of ACME bullets in different calibers and styles. They are top notch. Their coating seems to be very uniform and plenty thick.

What I would do, if I could, is buy 100 of each and try them with varying powder charges that I wanted to use and make a decision.

After trying quite a few brands of Hi-Tek coated bullets, all of them seem to be mostly OK. Different colors seem to make the coatings seem either thicker or thinner.
IMO, ACME's are always uniform and shoot consistent in my guns.

But I do like the camo look on the other ones.

I just looked and you are thinking of the ACME lead SWC. Look at the Hi-Tek coated here:
http://www.acmebullet.com/bullets-reloading-brass/38-CAL-Lead-Cast-Bullets/38-158-SWC-NLG
Excellent bullet!

 

[Keith G]

Don’t know the size of the cylinder throat - it’s a Taylor’s & Co.(Uberti) Cattleman. It seems like most bullets are sized to a specific size. Not sure how one goes about sizing to their particular cylinder throat. I’m a meticulous cleaner, so not too worried about leading, also don’t intend to load on the bottom end of recommended loads.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Don’t know the size of the cylinder throat - it’s a Taylor’s & Co.(Uberti) Cattleman. It seems like most bullets are sized to a specific size. Not sure how one goes about sizing to their particular cylinder throat. I’m a meticulous cleaner, so not too worried about leading, also don’t intend to load on the bottom end of recommended loads.

You size cast bullets to the bore. If the chamber throats are smaller than the bore you will have issues with lead bullets. Severe leading is more than just a cleaning problem but with coated bullets and that gun I doubt it will be a concern.
I wouldn't worry about any of that until you try a few bullets first. As previously suggested, get 100 of two or more brands and see what works best.

 

[Keith G]

K4swb, thanks for that link. That bullet looks interesting.

 

[Keith G]

Ok, I’m not embarrassed to ask questions, so I’m gonna ask for some clarification on the sizing issue. I assumed, and haven’t read to the contrary, that if I bought 38 special bullets from a supplier, that they are ready to go. Is that wrong?

 

[Eddietruett]

I've never tried ACME but heard they have great products. For my HyTek Coated, I've used mostly Summers Enterprises, SNS Casting and Missouri Bullets. In .38/357 I generally use 3 different weights, 130gr TCFP, 158gr TCFP and 180gr PugNose FP. Of course, no one sells all 3 so I generally buy several thousand when buying. One huge advantage is Missouri Bullets will sell sample packs of most every bullet available for testing and that helps not getting a bunch of one weight that you don't like. Lately the bulk of my shooting has been the SNS 158gr TCFP. Was using the SWC but found the TCFP to be more accurate in just about every gun I own especially when shooting Steel plates at 75-100 yards. The Most accurate bullet I've found for my 75yd range is the Missouri Pugnose 180gr with 13.5gr H110. This is a hot load running around 1350fps but off a rest and with a red dot sight, my 8 3/8" Model 686 will consistently shoot sub 4" groups. I developed this load for hog hunting.

 

[Walkalong]

Ok, I’m not embarrassed to ask questions, so I’m gonna ask for some clarification on the sizing issue. I assumed, and haven’t read to the contrary, that if I bought 38 special bullets from a supplier, that they are ready to go. Is that wrong?

That is correct, although sometimes they give you one or two diameters to choose from.

Either ACME or SNS coated 158 Gr SWCs will perform well for you and be easier to start with than straight lead (Uncoated) bullets. While the lead .358 158 Gr SWC may not lead at all in your revolver, you can be sure the coated one will not.

I am shooting the SNS coated 158 gr SWC right now, but have also shot the ACME 158 Gr coated SWC and they shoot fine as well.

Another bullet to consider is the coated 148 Gr DEWC from either company. Missouri Bullet Company also make a good product. Lots of coated bullet suppliers these days.

 

[Salmoneye]

Some companies do not list alternative sizes on their web sites, but are willing to accommodate customer wishes/needs if contacted...

Some manufacturers offer more than one or two size choices...

Penn is one company that offers a fairly broad range of sizes per 'caliber'...

For instance, their 158gr Truncated Cone is available from .357" to .360"...

I use that bullet sized .358" for my handguns, but my Micro-Groove Marlin in 35 Remington wants them at .360"...

 

[Keith G]

What would be the advantage of straight lead vs coated?

 

[kidneyboy]

I have loaded and shot thousands of coated Acme 158gr SWC and 158 RNFP. In 38sp cases over W231 and 357 cases over Trailboss. I was using Bayou Bullets, which are excellent, and switched to Acme as they are local for me. Excellent bullets.

 

[Keith G]

Thanks for the info, guys! I knew this was the correct forum to join. This long range pistol thing has bitten me hard, and I’m fortunate enough to be able to walk out my front door and shoot all I want, hence the need to reload. The adventure begins...

 

[9mmepiphany]

What would be the advantage of straight lead vs coated?

There is no advantage to shooting straight lead...because it is prone to leading

There are two common kinds of coating. Powder Coating and Polymer Coating...I can't tell from their site which coating they are using, but judging by the color availability, I'd suspect powder coating

Edit: I just watched the video and they say it is a polymer...but he says it somehow invented it himself; so I'm not quite sure what that menas

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

What would be the advantage of straight lead vs coated?

Cost

 

[Keith G]

Cost is what I would think, but these coated bullets are the same price as these uncoated ones.

 

[Walkalong]

What would be the advantage of straight lead vs coated?

A little cheaper, some say lead is a bit more accurate but I doubt most of us are good enough to prove it one way or another. I do know the SNS over 14.5 Grs of 2400 is at last as accurate as I can shoot.

If you are casting your own, lead is easier and faster, but if you are buying, and just starting out reloading, I think coated is the way to start.

 

[Walkalong]

Cost is what I would think, but these coated bullets are the same price as these uncoated ones.

Heck, sure are, coated for sure.

 

[35 Whelen]

I've been fighting the long range SA bug for a while now. It started with my Uberti .44 Specials and shooting at 50 yds. because I wanted to hunt with them, but like any addict that wasn't enough, so I set up a 75 yd. target. But my cravings urged me onward and 100 yd. steel followed and now there's a 160 yd. set up so I can shoot from inside my shop when it's raining. (I know, I have a problem)

Anyhow, several months ago I drug out one of my Uberti Hombre .357's that had previously only been used for CAS. I needed to get rid of a bunch of heavy loaded .38 Special ammunition I got from a buddy that passed away. First 50 yds-



Well dang...I didn't expect that from a budget single action. Then 75 yds.-



OK, now curiosity is killing me, so I cast up a bunch a 158 gr. SWC's and have been shooting them ever since. So here's a few things I have figured out-

An 11° cut in the barrel forcing cone helps bunches with accuracy and leading. Looks like you're already hooked (takes one to know one, right?) so just go ahead and order a Brownells.38-.45 BASIC CHAMFERING KIT https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...iber-sku080479451-514-2148.aspx?sku=080479451

I haven't shot commercial cast bullets in many years, but I once had a 500 count box of those very bullets that Acme offers and found them to be accurate, but I wasn't shooting past 25 yds. back then. But you can get them quite a bit cheaper here: http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=52&category=5&secondary=9
I personally don't care for any coating and think it's a solution looking for a problem and I don't think it's possible to add what can't be an even coating to a bullet and make it more accurate, but to each his own....

In my Uberti's I was getting minor leading in the throat with my bullets sized to .358", but on a whim ordered and began using a .360" sizer, sizing them .002" over the cylinder throat diameters, and leading was completely eliminated while accuracy was unaffected.

I stumbled on a fantastic load that consists of 5.5 grs. of Unique and either of my cast SWC's (153 and 158 gr.). Velocity out of the 4 3/4" barrel averages 1023 fps and accuracy is wonderful.



I shot this load just this morning at a 12" steel plate at 100 yds. and had no problem hitting it. Incidentally, I don't shoot revolvers from a bench, all these groups were fired from a seated, back rested position.

35W

 

[kidneyboy]

35 Whelen said
"....set up so I can shoot from inside my shop when it's raining. (I know, I have a problem)"

You HAD a problem. That is the solution

 

[Keith G]

35 Whelen, thanks a lot. You’re kind of like a dealer that says “The first one’s free.” LOL. That is good shooting, and with a 4.75” barrel. I have the 5.5” Taylor’s & Co. Drifter (Cattleman, but with an octagonal barrel), and it shoots great. This long range thing is very addicting. My drug of choice at the moment is popping balloons at 75 yards. I use to really enjoy rifle shooting, but haven’t picked une up in a while now. And thanks for the links!

 

[Walkalong]

My drug of choice at the moment is popping balloons at 75 yards

That sounds fun. I have some steel set up at 18, 53, 75 and 108 yards I shoot handguns at (Well, at least some of them.) 3/8'x12", 1/4'x16",1/4'x18", & 1/2'x16" for a better hit miss ratio. I have a couple of smaller ones for 108 if I want to shoot rifle. Not right outside my door though, that would be nice.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I have shot the Acme coated and was happy with them. However, I shot them next to Missouri Bullets and I think MB was a little more accurate. I like MB in that I can order the better hardness level for a certain load to get the best performance. If you're going light the Acme's may be too hard for your use, or too soft if you look to push them hard. The lead bullets do smoke more though due to the lube on them, not a big deal but may be for some.

In the end I tend to stick with MB due to their hardness options.

 

[Keith G]

Walkong, being able to walk out my front door and shoot is really nice, albeit a bit expensive. I grew up hunting my Uncle’s places in the country. Was fortunate enough to be able to move my little family to land we purchased a few years ago full time a couple of years ago. My wife, daughter and I built our little “cabin” with our own six hands. It’s been the best move/adventure I could have ever asked for.

 

[Walkalong]

Nice, my wife and I are nearing retirement. We bought a piece of land four years ago and will build there, not with our own hands, I am too old for such a big job anymore. I have done a great deal up there though.

I built this little shed completely on my own, holds a buggy, a four wheeler, and a lawn mower, with a little extra space. Since then I opened up an old overgrown road so the concrete trucks can get into this area. Anything else will have a pad.