16 ga. Why or why not

[NoAlibi]

oneounceload - Porting does nothing to reduce recoil - never has, never will

Intersting that this was your experience with Lazerports. However my experience with Lazerports appears to be different.

Lazerports angle the ports upward and backward. The upward direction forces the barrel down to stop muzzle rise in a long-barreled gun - which no one seems to doubt. And the posterior direction of the ports propels the barrel forward reacting against recoil. It not only seems logical to me, but feels that way as well...Hmmm...

 

[Guns and more]

I see no advantage to the 16 ga.
The recoil is the same, and the ammo is not as available.

 

[clang]

Love 16s, but voted no anyway - 12s and 20s are just so much more popular and there isn't much a 16 can do that the others can't do just as well.

My favorite 16 gauge is my Remington 1900 SxS.

 

[eastbank]

i got this baker batavia leader 16ga last year,very dirty with a rotten old recoil pad, after cleaning it up and test firing to see if it was safe(it has steel barrels and it in very good condition with no cracks or splits in the wood). the bores are ex and it was a late production gun,serial ends in F(serial#17896F),meaning in was made by folsom. i had a new recoil pad on it and refinished the wood(several coats so far of true oil). i was glad to breath new life into this old classic american shotgun,i shoot one oz loads of #six shot and will take it late season rabbit hunting in a few weeks. eastbank.

 

[oneounceload]

Lazerports angle the ports upward and backward. The upward direction forces the barrel down to stop muzzle rise in a long-barreled gun - which no one seems to doubt. And the posterior direction of the ports propels the barrel forward reacting against recoil. It not only seems logical to me, but feels that way as well...Hmmm...

I never said a thing about muzzle rise ( and the jury is out on that as well) - I said recoil - that is a mathematical equation and porting has no bearing or factor in that equation - it DOES make it louder for all around you though

 

[Sav .250]

To me the 16 ga is the step-child of the 12 ga. If you like it.....buy one.

 

[NoAlibi]

oneounceload - "I never said a thing about muzzle rise ( and the jury is out on that as well) - I said recoil - that is a mathematical equation and porting has no bearing or factor in that equation - it DOES make it louder for all around you though"

If you reread my post you’ll notice that I didn’t put any words in your mouth about muzzle rise. I included it in the discussion to make a parallel with the direction of gases affecting the movement of the barrel. Juries from several publications, including American Rifleman, have come in with “verdicts” confirming that porting works. Do you think that Magnaport, its sister-company Proport, Lazerports and other porting companies have sustained their businesses for more than 30 or 40 years on hype?

The most obvious “verdicts” come from the users of compensators and ports used on competition guns in several disciplines - IDPA, IPSC/USPSA, etc. I and several thousand competitors can attest that after shooting both compensated/ported and their stock counterparts that they work. Do you think that competitors such as Latham, Enos, Koenig et al are just being fooled by hype?

I’ve even noticed the effect of compensated and ported handguns when I placed the same guns before and after altering in my Ransom Rest. The muzzle rise has always been significantly less in altered guns. While still present the muzzle rise in 2" revolvers was not significant enough to warrant porting. I attribute this to the moment arm (distance of the porting from the gun’s center of gravity) being so short as not creating enough leverage to make it worthwhile.

Let’s get back to gas porting and recoil. To give you an analogy that is so obvious let me refer you to the reverse thrusters on jet engines. I’ve flown airplanes with these devices and I, many, many thousands of pilots and aeronautical engineers can tell you that revectoring the thrust (i.e. redirecting gasses) works.

I’ve shot a Barrett 50 with and with out their muzzle brake device. There is not a doubt in my mind that there is a difference in recoil. I will grant you that the noise will make those around you wish you would go home. It would be hard for me to change my mind, but I would if you can give me some law or at least a theory in physics why redirection of gasses can affect muzzle rise and not recoil.

 

[oneounceload]

Do you think that Magnaport, its sister-company Proport, Lazerports and other porting companies have sustained their businesses for more than 30 or 40 years on hype?

When it comes to claims about recoil reduction, my answer is yes I do think that is hype - if it wasn't, every recoil calculator on the net would have a provision for whether or not the barrel was ported - the recoil has already started by the time the ejecta gets to the ports

You might also be confusing PERCEIVED with ACTUAL recoil

Enough of this here - start another thread about it if you want, else they'll lock this one

 

[ArmedBear]

It not only seems logical to me, but feels that way as well...Hmmm...

The placebo effect is a powerful thing.

WRT the 16...

Why? Some guns handle really well in that particular size and weight.

Why not? Poor availability of ammo, guns, reloading components.

 

[CHEVELLE427]

my first deer was taken with a rem 1908 sxs 16ga with no4 shot

down side to a 16 is cost now and availability of the ammo

if i reloaded for a 16 that would be great but I'm set up for 410 20 12 and only have that 100+ year old sxs that has been retired

 

[DM~]

Because my "go to gun" is 16ga., i ALWAYS look to see if the store i'm in has any 16ga. ammo. 99.9% of the time they do, and then i ck. the price. Last week i was in a walmart store in New York state, and sure enough, 16ga. ammo was $5.99 per box, so i bought what they had. I just don't buy the argument that there's NO 16ga. ammo around, as i see it everywhere i go. Most times it DOES cost a bit more though.

As for 16ga. recoil being as much as a 12... This is only true if you are shooting the same payload at the same velocity in the same weight gun. Shoot 1oz loads in the 16 and 1-1/4 loads in the 12, and the recoil will not be the same.

I do like the 16ga guns, especially, if like was said, the 16 is on a 20 guage frame. (as mine is) IF, more folks would buy 16's, the price of ammo would come down and be even more available. That's one thing nice about a 16, it can be put in a smaller frame gun.

DM

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Wow lots of opinions.., here's what I have found..,

As for pricing 16 gauge shells, try here:
sportsmansguide

Estate or Federal or Remington, and you pay in most cases a whopping .04 more per shell than a 20 or twelve (roughly). High brass heavy loads you will pay .08 or more per shell, but I've never had to use premium shells to limit out. Now IF you are shooting a flat or more of shells per month..., you need a twenty, as reloading won't do it for the 16 gauge. One person suggested 28 gauge, but the ammo for that is to16 gauge shell prices as the 16 gauge is to the prices on 20 gauge, in many cases.

Lets get back to the original idea...
Fact: one ounce of lead shot from a 20, 16, or twelve, fired at the same velocity from all three using guns of equal weight, will equal the same amount of recoil in the opposite direction (toward you). Lest we forget, Newton's Third Law "The mutual forces of action and reaction between two bodies are equal, opposite and collinear. " In fact due to less inertia, a lighter gun (which is probably what you'd get with a 20 gauge) will recoil more. OK great, so what?

If the gun fits the shooter well, then it is a well known consensus (for it is an opinion, not really measurable) that the shooter often feels that the recoil is less. Even when that gun is shooting ballistically identical shells to the disliked gun, and the favorite gun is lighter than the disliked gun (so the recoil is actually harder) the shooter will often give the opinion that the recoil is less.
So..., percieved recoil is really the issue, and actual recoil PLUS gun fit are the factors to be adjusted.

I think before you buy, you need to test fire several different makes of shotguns of various gauges, and then decide. You may find another twelve of a different make and model is just what you need, or you may find a specific 20 gauge is just right. Perhaps a vintage 16 will be just what the doctor ordered. Only you can say.

I shoot several 16 gauges for the nostalgia, and they fit me very well, so I shoot better with them than other shotguns that I have owned. I spend about a dollar or more per box of shells than the guy with the 12 or 20. I also CHEAT by using chamber adapters sometimes to shoot inexpensive 20 gauge shells in my 16, so I opted for the 16 gauge as I know you can adapt it to shoot 20 gauge shells if it still isn't right..., With my 16's (a Savage 311 retrofitted with screw in chokes, and a CZ) I get the best of both worlds.

Good Luck, and have fun testing the guns.

LD

 

[jlbpa]

I have a 16ga model 12 and a 16ga 11-48 remington (recoil operated) I like shooting the model 12 better. Finding shells is not a problem if you just grab a box or two when you see them. That way you're not running around the day before your hunting trip trying to find some and then griping on some forum how hard it is to find 16 ga.

 

[ball3006]

I love the 16 gauge. My Grandpa gave me a Remington Model 11 in 16 gauge when I turned 13. I shot a zillion dove, quail, and ducks with it. I happen to have a sweet Spanish double that is lighter than my Stevens 20 gauge double for sale. It belongs to a friend of mine. If I still hunted I would snap it up. chris3

 

[PJR]

Ah, the Sweet 16. Oh the memories of a young lad firing his first shotgun round in a gravel pit in Northern Ontario.

It was 30 years plus before I fired another 16 gauge and I don't feel like I missed a thing. Despite the misty-eyed claims of the fans the 16 isn't magical nor does it do anything that other gauges can do as well if not better.

I might own one if I found a very special gun in that gauge but I would never recommend one to anyone for anything.

 

[fixxer]

Why invest in an obsolete platform? There are plenty of modern alternatives.

 

[USAF_Vet]

My only real experience is with 12 ga and my F-in-law's .410/ .22 OU. I can handle the recoil on my 12 ga, but I'm a big guy, and after a day at the range, i'm feeling it the next day. I'm looking into a 20 ga for my next shotgun purchase, but I've never really considered the 16 ga, or even the 28 ga. There isn't a lot the 16ga can do that the 12 or 20 won't do equally as well, same argument between the 28ga and the .410.

Price and ammo availabiility also factors in. I have a ready supply of 12 and 20 gauge shells everywhere from Wal-mart to the more gun specific stores. My local Wally world is also beefing up their stock of .410. Never have I seen 10, 16 or 28 gauge shells on the shelves or behind the counter. Sure, I can get them at gun shops, but paying double, sometimes more, for a 16 gauge shell versus a 12 seems cost ineffective. But I'm on a seriously tight budget, like a lot of people these days, and the added expense for what I view as a novelty that offers no practical use compared to what is readily available doesn't make sense. But hey, that is my perspective based on my life and situation. My F-in-law has over a dozen long guns that simple sit around gathering dust, because he has forsaken them all in favor of his .45 muzzle loader.

 

[oneounceload]

My only real experience is with 12 ga and my F-in-law's .410/ .22 OU. I can handle the recoil on my 12 ga, but I'm a big guy, and after a day at the range, i'm feeling it the next day. I'm looking into a 20 ga for my next shotgun purchase, but I've never really considered the 16 ga, or even the 28 ga. There isn't a lot the 16ga can do that the 12 or 20 won't do equally as well, same argument between the 28ga and the .410.

If you think the 20 gauge will have less recoil think again. Typically it is a lighter gun, and as a consequence, can actually have MORE recoil. If you're feeling it the next day, either your current gun doesn't fit properly, or your form is off a little, or a combination of both. Improper fit transmits more perceived recoil, cheek slap, etc....

 

[clang]

Instead of worrying about what gauge gun to buy, you might want to first think about what size gun works best for you. For my upland hunting, I prefer a 6.5 - 7lb gun that swings well. It's my best compromise between comfort carrying, felt recoil, and enough weight to keep my swing steady. I've shot plenty of guns both heavier and lighter, and for hunting, this is what works best for me. I have a couple of Beretta 12 ga O/Us that are my go to guns because they fit this criteria. My 16 ga SxS also falls into my sweet zone.

 

[Moose23]

Yes. For the same reason we like '56 T-Birds, '63 Corvettes, 1911's, Garands, Model 12 Winchesters, good cigars and fine whiskey. Because it's cool, somewhat nostalgic, and you just plain like it.

 

[Tactikewl]

I have a 16ga. It was my first firearm ever single shot. The ammo is expensive and rare. Other than that it is great.. Just not very versatile due to the lack of locally available factory ammo.

 

[hunt]

i voted for the 16 ga
i have a model 37 in 16 ga its a lovely shooter and great on the swing
the light weight allows for more recoil then would be perferable but the
gun just handles better then a heavy full frame 12

 

[vaherder]

12 gauge

If recoil is the issue try one of the latest from the B's, A400,Maxus, and Vinci.
Find the one that fits you best and recoil should be much less of an issue out of one these semis. Avoid the Versamess sorry Versamax from Remington since who knows if Remington will still be around.

Would not recommend a pump or O/U if you have shoulder issues.

My girlfriend is maybe 5ft tall and a 100lbs. She has had both of her shoulders repaired by the USA. She has a Maxus and has no issues shooting Sporting Clays and upland hunting which she really enjoys. I can take or leave upland hunting but its her passion. if Jimmy Choo just made a pair of boots for this she would be all set.

VA herder

 

[bruzer]

Voted against the 16 ga simply because I could not find shells locally for it many years ago and that is why it got sold. I can find shells for it now but if I need a shotgun Dad's 10 ga will do the trick. Would not recommend that gun for someone with shoulder problems. Unless your problem is a dislocated shoulder and then it could be used to "pop" it back in!
Mike