168gr Berger VLD Hunting 30-06

[Stormin.40]

So I have been working on developing an accurate hunting load for my Tikka Forest in 30-06. I shot various factory ammunition to determine which which bullet weight and type it seems to like. The 165 grain range stood out with federal fusion, Remington corlokt and HSM 168gr berger all coming in around MOA.

I settled on the 168gr berger for load development. I ended up with IMR 4831 showing the most promise and used Berger load data. I found the first accuracy node at 54 gr. but it felt like shooting a 308 and velocity was in the 2400s so I went above berger published max. I ended up on an accuracy node a little higher and chronographed @ 2650fps, 10' from muzzle. These feel like a 30-06 load but are still 150fps lower than I would have expected. 5 shot groups are at 1 MOA, probably more shooter than load, with decent standard deviation and velocity seems temperature stable.

My question is. Would you settle on this load given the low velocity or further up on powder charge?

 

[AJC1]

Your speed must be a typo and buy your description you must gave ment 2650 a 308 speed you expected 150fps faster out of the bigger case. It sounds like your slow but I don't see a barrel length for a guesstimate

 

[Walkalong]

chronographed @ 4650fps

I assume you meant to type 2650? 4650 would be smoking!

 

[Stormin.40]

Yes, 2650 fps.

Barrel length I believe is 22.4".

 

[GooseGestapo]

I think you need to rethink using IMR4831 in a .30/06 with a 168gr bullet.

Hodgdons doesn’t list data with either a 165 or 168gr bullet.
The lightest it does list is a 175gr Sierra MatchKing and then, the starting load is 54.0gr.
Max is 57.5 because that’s a compressed load and all that can be used and still seat the bullet!
Velocity is listed at 2,781.w/24”bbl.

I MUCH prefer H4350 in the ‘06 with 165-168gr bullets.
Last year, I hunted elk in Utah using the 165gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, or Sierra GameKing BtSpt. It chronograph sat 3,000fps from my Colt Lt Rifle (commercial version of Mel Forbes Ultra Lt. Rifle Model 24) w/24”bbl. Using 57.0gr of Reloader17. Federal match prepped case, Federal 210primer.
Accuracy is under MOA.
57.0gr of IMR4350 with a 165gr MatchKing has been a staple of Bullseye Match bolt actions for decades.

I suggest you move up to a 180gr bullet. Accuracy is usually at least as good and down range energy higher.

I use a 165 because I had them on hand, and trajectories are flatter to 500yds... a 180will kill deer just as dead as a 165...

But, 57.5 (compressed) will give you all you’ll want. No way you’ll exceed maximum pressures.
Sometimes you just have to make-do with what ya got!
But powders are quickly becoming more available.
https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

 

[Okie_Poke]

I think you need to rethink using IMR4831 in a .30/06 with a 168gr bullet.

I MUCH prefer H4350 in the ‘06 with 165-168gr bullets.

I second this. IMR 4831 is too slow (IMHO) for a 30-06 with 165-class bullets. I too like H or IMR 4350 in the 30-06 (or Reloder 16). With 165 class bullets, you can even go with a somewhat faster burning powder if you'd like. IMR 4064 and similar powders work just fine with 150s and 165s.

 

[Thomasss]

To be polite, you are mixing "apples and oranges" with your hunting load. 1) Your Berger bullet is not in the same class as the Federal or the Remington. You need to decide optimum distance for your hunting load. The Fed. and Rem are fantastic bullets out to 300 yds., but the Berger only excels them beyond 400 yds. If you want to have the same penetration and expansion as a 165 grain bullet, you need to shoot a 180 grn. Berger due to the copper bullet construction.
2) You have a great rifle, but 1MOA is just the beginning for your Tikka. I shoot a 30.06, 1970 Rem. 700 and I shoot .75 MOA or less...you can do a lot better. Beyond your bullet and powder, you should also be looking at bullet seating depth to improve your MOA. Seat your bullet .002-.004 off the lands for a safe and better MOA.
3) Maximum load with 4831 is around 2600 fps according to Lyman's powder manual. (Hodgdon/IMR's internet no longer recommends IMR 4831 for a 168 grn. bullet) Varget, 4064 and 4350 will all get 2800fps and RL-17 will put you close to 2950fps according to Hornady's 10 edition powder book with a 165 grn. bullet. Remember though, with velocity comes recoil. I personally like 2800 fps due to my aging 70 year old body. Hope this info. helps.

 

[.38 Special]

MOA is more than needed for most hunting, as is 168 grains at 2650 fps. Most likely both can be bettered with effort. The question is whether that would make any difference at all in the hunting fields.

 

[AJC1]

Seat your bullet .002-.004 off the lands for a safe and better MOA.

I agree with you except the following excerpt. -.005 through +.005 is no man's land for accuracy even with extreme control of seating depth. Bullet variations will give touch or just off in this area.

 

[Stormin.40]

Thanks for the replies.

I will go back to and work on this a little more before switching bullets. I have played with seating depth but probably not enough, iI followed bergers instructions.

4350 and 4064 did not shoot well a various charge weight and 4831 did which is why I settled on it. I haven't tried Varget yet.

I am not typically a velocity chaser, accuracy first then reasonable velocity. I get 1 MOA kills just fine within a couple hundred yards. I just know this gun is capable of better.

Yanks again for the replies.

 

[Thomasss]

I am not typically a velocity chaser, accuracy first then reasonable velocity. I get 1 MOA kills just fine within a couple hundred yards. I just know this gun is capable of better.

This info puts a whole new light on your subject. If 200yrds is thee distance for you, you might just want to stay with 4831. You might be just fine with that powder for your requirements. Powder is still a strange component that can be hard to find. As slow burning as it is, it has a soft recoil. Some people will load it with magnum primers in order to get a good burn in cold weather. U know u can push the velocity up a little and you are satisfied with 1MOA. I shot 4831 in my .06 down to 8 degrees F with no difficulties for many years at 200 yards. I traded a guy an electric trolling motor for 30 pounds of H-4831, and my family shot it for 20 years. If you are interested my sweet spot node is 3.257 c.o.a.l. for the 165 grn. Hornady Interlock SP or Rem Cor-Lokt.

 

[Stormin.40]

I looked at some of my targets using H4350, where I tested OAL to see what bullet jump worked best. I picked 0.003 off lands but had similar groups further out so once I get the velocity up a little I will recheck OAL.

Thanks again for the advise.

 

[Stevel]

With your original post I was thinking you were fine with those speeds and accuracy. That said, my '06 load is the 57 of H4350 (2850 fps from a 22" barrel) as has been mentioned.

 

[OFFGRID]

I think you need to rethink using IMR4831 in a .30/06 with a 168gr bullet.

Hodgdons doesn’t list data with either a 165 or 168gr bullet.

i think he got his data from the lyman.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Nope!
Hodgdons.com

I haven’t been able to get that much in a ‘06 case... and seat a bullet.

 

[OFFGRID]

Nope!
Hodgdons.com

I haven’t been able to get that much in a ‘06 case... and seat a bullet.

oh i think you may have misunderstood my post. when i refered to "he" i was speaking about the original poster and where he might have gotten load data for 4831 for lighter bullets instead of hodgdon.com. im sorry about that.

 

[GooseGestapo]

No problem! My mis read...