.17 HMR V-Max OK for racoon?

[Bill_Rights]

It didn't tuen out well....

Had to shoot a racoon inside my garage the other day (well outside the city limits, of course!).

Only a 24' x 24' two-car garage and I didn't want to take a chance either missing the shot or penetrating the 1/2" plywood if I did miss, so I selected the .17 HMR V-Max 17 grain load for my Marlin 917. Figured the bullet would fragment before penetrating plywood if I missed. Shot would only be about 3-4 yards, and I didn't trust the previous sighting in of rifle (50 yards) at such close range, so I decided to take only a body shot - even this bullet might ricochet off skull if slightly off center...

Well, I landed three shots. No bullet marks on the wood behind where the racoon had been for each of the three shots. The critter was definitely hit each time, jumping and running for cover. The coon eventually jumped to the floor and limped out the door (quickly), leaving small trail of blood. One of the broadside body shots must have hit her front shoulder blade. We fished two baby coons (about 10" body length) out of the eaves and let 'em go in the woods. They could climb.

I was expecting a bit more "devastating" terminal ballistics effect from the .17 HMR V-Max. Any comments? Is a racoon's hide so tough that this bullet would not penetrate reliably before expanding? I am sure the adult racoon is dead - either bled out in a few minutes in the woods or one of the many foxes we have around here got her the same night. I am sure the poor critter was pumped full of adrenaline and defending her brood, maybe managing to "hold it together" for a few minutes. Still, I expected enough gut damage to bring her down within a few seconds. Any point of reference experience?

 

[Art Eatman]

Odds are that she bled out fairly quickly.

I doubt that a head shot would--or even could--cause a ricochet...

 

[The-Reaver]

shocked that three rounds didn't take down a coon on the spot... well you know what they say.
shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. =)

 

[mopar92]

Next time take it out, don't let it suffer out... Head shots with a .22 does the trick...

 

[kingcheese]

sure you didnt hit the floor? that would make them fragment and no holes in the wall, and the fragments could nick the coon

 

[straitnate14]

I don't think the v max open up on really anything. Or I have yet to shoot something that they don't just pass through with little or no expansion. I like the 20gr game points for anything more than black birds but I guess they would have went through your garage

 

[atblis]

17 HMR should have laid a Racoon out cold. They aren't that big and not that heavily structured.

 

[mr.trooper]

17HMR is plenty for racoon. There is a reason gut shots are a bad thing.

 

[Flintknapper]

17 HMR should work just fine on a coon.

I'm guessing (and no offense intended) that somehow you placed shots in "the big middle" instead of the shoulder region. A raccoon could easily take a few in the gut and escape to die later.

Anyway, I am glad you are rid of your raccoon problem.

 

[Bill_Rights]

Garage "hunter" clarifies....

First,

sure you didnt hit the floor?

Yes. We chased the 'coon up into the attic (9-in12 pitch roof, 24' foot span above 11' open-joist ceiling, so plenty of room up there), so all shots were upward and would've hit plywood sheathing or 2X lumber if they missed. Shooting into concrete would be too dangerous even for a fool like me.

About

Next time take it out, don't let it suffer out...

I totally agree! I seriously was trying to make a humane, quick kill (rather than using poison, maybe). While I don't get to hunt as much as I want nowadays, I was raised "old school", where if you can't get a clean shot, you don't take it. That is sport. Or maybe even nice-to-have meat hunting. This was different, not sport. The varmint needed to go, the babies were past time to get on their own (but didn't know how to leave) and my kids, pets and property were at risk. Every year, justified or not, we get public health warnings about rabid racoons around here - this one was not rabid, as I could tell once I got face to face with her. Still this critter had to go. All that said, I would be a better rifleman if I coulda got her "clean", which was certainly my intent.

About

Head shots with a .22 does the trick
and
I like the 20gr game points for anything more than black birds

Yes, the .22 rifle with iron sights I could trust at such short range was in another state at my folk's house. I do have a .22 pistol, but..... I am not a pistol hunter. That's a whole 'nother thing, and I know my limits.

And yes, I now know to use the hollow points 20 gr HP XTP for a 'coon head shot. And I had boxes of those around. But, as you acknowledge, I didn''t want to shoot through the garage wall into neighboring properties.

And finally,

There is a reason gut shots are a bad thing

Yep. I agree. Go to school on my expense. Not that we didn't know that already. [As I mentioned, I wasn't sure of my sight-in at so close distance, so I felt I had to take body shots, to be sure of a hit, so I didn't shoot through the plywood wall. Now that we're pretty sure the V-Max wouldn't penetrate plywood, I would go for the head shot next time.]

 

[mr.trooper]

If you don't want critiqued, and already know what you did wrong, then you probably shouldn't post threads in which you admit to horribly maiming an animal just to save a sheet of plywood. It looks bad, and some things are better left private.

Animal control or DNR would have removed them for free.

I'm sure you, and probably some others, think that I am being too harsh or a 'jerk'. So be it. But in my mind, a hunters first responsibility is to his quarry, and second to the environment. Inflicting a grievous lingering wound to an animal that did no more than inconvenience you is to fail at both of those things. You should be all torn up about this, and you don't seem to be one bit. Sorry if I don't sympathize with you cartridge dilemma.

 

[lizziedog1]

Next time use a shotgun with birdshot. Aim it at the head and see what happens at such short ranges.

 

[Bill_Rights]

Trooper,
I thought I would get some criticism, but I respect the shooters and hunters on this forum enough to accept it.

Other than that, I have already explained myself well enough, and we're going to disagree. Separate from the content of what I said, I regret that my "tone" seems to have struck you wrong.

 

[Sunray]

"...and let 'em go..." You should have shot them too. They've starved to death.

 

[Grumulkin]

Different animal have nervous systems that react differently to trauma. Racoons, in my experience don't die immediately unless hit in the head or hit with a big fast bullet. Rounds like the 17 HMR or 22 LR kill them just fine but not as fast as a 300 Win. Mag.

I've had pet racoons and they're quite intelligent but if you have a garden, etc. they can be a tremendous nuisance. If they're around and you plant anything, they'll dig it up to say nothing about getting in your garbage. For this reason, if they're within rifle shot of my home, I kill all I see.

Oh, by the way, my grandson killed one with a 17 cal. pellet gun recently.

 

[lizziedog1]

Rounds like the 17 HMR or 22 LR kill them just fine but not as fast as a 300 Win. Mag.

A 50BMG would be even faster!

 

[NickEllis]

First, this wasn't hunting, it was exterminating. Stomping cockroaches. Hunting ethics don't apply, in my mind, just effectiveness to do the job.

Secondly, the 'not punching holes in plywood' argument is legitimate, if you meant not to penetrate the plywood. The 'you're stupid just to save a piece of plywood' statement above misses the point if that's the case.

However, I'm doubtful that a raccoon body would slow down a 17HMR enough to make much of a difference. Unless the V-Max is more effective at immediate expansion/fragmentation than I think it is.

 

[atblis]

. Unless the V-Max is more effective at immediate expansion/fragmentation than I think it is.

It is.

 

[dprice3844444]

time to seal up the eaves,if only with heavy type chicken wire

 

[Justin Holder]

Coons can be tough. I've seen them torn apart buy a bad shot from a .270 (gut shot) and still have enough life left to try and crawl away.

With a rimfire you can't expect quick incapacitation with body shots. You pretty much have to take out the central nervous system or the vital organs for a quick kill.

When using a scope at very close range your line of sight is significantly higher than the path of the bullet so your shots are going to be below your point of aim. Its all about shot placement.

 

[colonelhogan44]

WARNING: GRAPHIC PHOTOS

Here is the results of a 17gr v-max out of the 17 HMR's little red-headed brother, the 17 HM2 at about 50 yards. Immediate and rapid expansion.

This same load will go through a pine 2x4, and will cut through plywood like a hot knife through butter, so that point is somewhat moot. (it comes out fragmented, in both cases, however.)

I have seen my buddy's HMR tear squirrels in half. It'd scramble a raccoon pretty well.

and just for kicks, here's a hit at 300 yards with the HM2--no expansion, but DRT (lucky shot)

 

[Bill_Rights]

Regarding

Secondly, the 'not punching holes in plywood' argument is legitimate, if you meant not to penetrate the plywood. The 'you're stupid just to save a piece of plywood' statement above misses the point if that's the case.

the case is human safety. I did not want a bullet penetrating the plywood whole (small fragments OK) and endangering life and property hundreds of yards away. There is no way I could be sure of any backstop or that some kid would not be riding down the road on a bicycle or whatever.

I am an accomplished builder and can patch the plywood and siding. That was never the issue.

BYW, about trapping service; we called one service who told us that County regulations pohibited them from releasing the animal(s) any farther than 250 yards from where trapped. a) :banghead: it would certainly just come back - this is a return nester as it is. b) there is such a thing as too much government.

As for the chicken wire on the eaves: Nah, that's not the problem. Box eaves. All vents screened. We did not have garage doors on the garage (carport?) for years. Used to like to watch the barn swallows swoop around. Poop and mud for 5 months a year, three broods, got old. Finally got the nice, new, automatic, metal doors on last winter. This time the returning mama 'coon used the human door coming all the way through an elevated, roofed-over breezeway. Mostly at night, I guess. The nerve of the beast!

 

[bubbacrabb]

You did not do anything wrong. There is no ethics when you have an animal inside your home. Its not hunting. Its like an invasion. Trust me, when I lived in Indiana 3 years I battled them things. First it was one, I caught it in a live trap took it out in the sticks and let it go, then fixed where he got in at. Week later after hearing nothing, I hear it scratching again. I go out side they ripped the sophet off the house. Ended up catching 10 more the next week. Finally enough was enough. 22 to the head every time I got them. Then it kept on going, fix a spot they'd rip a spot. They apparently leave a scent and others want to go bread there. 2500 dollars worth of damages caused. I have no sympathy for anything causing that kind of damage to my property. I ended up crawling around with a 22 with them little shot shells. Had to shoot one 3 times to get it down. I shot them with blow guns anything. I dont care just get the heck out! No worries, you didnt do anything wrong. You brought a lot more up there than I would of. Now if you said you were deer hunting with a 17 for the fun of it, that would be unethical. However, an intruder is an intruder.

 

[shiftyer1]

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in some scope rings you can see thru so you can use the iron sights also? Or practice using the barrel as a sight? This is what my son does with my pellet rifle at nite to good effect with coons, possums and rabbits. The scope on it is useless at nite.

 

[Bill_Rights]

scope at close range

Yes, Justin, when you say:

When using a scope at very close range your line of sight is significantly higher than the path of the bullet so your shots are going to be below your point of aim.

you are correct. And Shiftyer1 said

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in some scope rings you can see thru so you can use the iron sights also? Or practice using the barrel as a sight?

This would be good, but the rear iron sight has been removed to mount the scope. I bought it used, with scope, and took off the scope, put on a

Bushnell Banner 3.5-10 x 36 .17 Super AO Riflescope Matte Multi-X 71-3510:

AO = Adjustable Objective

FOV, ft.@1000yds. / m@1000m
30/[email protected] / 10.4/3.6@10x

Exit Pupil, mm
[email protected] / 3.6@10x

It has been a super good scope for this rifle. The AO feature focuses in to 10 yds and does parallax correction to boot.

However, at 10 feet, instead of 10 yards, even on lowest power, the image of the 'coon in the shadows was a little fuzzy. As Justin said, I aimed about 2" high. But I felt I still couldn't try a head shot, having never actually practiced such short range shooting.