1891 German Mauser questions??

[Schuey2002]

So my brother-n-law stops by my house yesterday and hands me this gun.

He knocks on my door, and the first thing out of his mouth was, "Wanna free gun?"

"Sure. Why not. You're joking, right?" I reply.
"Nope. Want me to prove it to ya? I'll be back in a sec."

He then turns around and walks back to his truck. Upon returning, he reaches out his arms, and hands me this German Mauser.

"I know that you'll give it a good home." He states.
"Why, may I ask, are you giving me this? Why don't you just sell it?" I reply.
"Sell it? Nah. I really want it to stay in the family." He jokes.
"OK, since you're giving it away. I'll take it off your hands."
"Besides, I really have no use for it.. I mean, just look at it. It's just being neglected at my place." He says.
"So, you don't want any money for it?" I ask.
"Nope." He replies.
I smiled, as I tried to contain my excitement. "Well, um.. thanks! I've got a nice spot for her in my safe."

Well, now that I've got this gun, I've got a bunch of questions for ya'll. So, here goes.

Markings:
On the left side of the receiver is written,

MAUSER MODELO ARGENTINO 1891
DEUTSCHE WAFFEN -- UND MUNITIONSFABRIKEN
BERLIN

The barrel, receiver, bolt and magwell are all stamped with the same serial #'s (which is in the low 5K range).. There are also a bunch of "handshake" and stylized "M" symbols scattered about as well.

Condition:
The gun is covered in surface rust due to severe neglect; there are little rust red spots everywhere. It also looks like a family of spiders have built a condo on the inside of the barrel, which doesn't seemed to have been cleaned in years, :banghead: The stock looks (at least to my eyes) to be in fairly good shape. It's pretty much devoid of very many marks, scars or scratches, which is cool..
There also appears to be a band missing (perhaps a barrel band/ front sling hoop?) that should have been located at the front of the stock. Other than that, it seems to have all of its parts (including the bolt, front sight, flip up rear sight that is marked #4-#20, a metal buttstock endplate, magwell, and a rear sling hoop jobbie).

Questions:
1) How should I go about tackling this rust problem?
2) Anyone have any tips on getting this thing back into shape?
3) Where can I get parts online?
4) Are there things that I should be look for when determining the condition of the barrel?
Rust/ Pitting /Corrosion and so forth?
5) Do any of you know what caliber this rifle is chambered in?
6) Finally, is it worth anything?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jagermeister]

Schuey:
I can't ans all your questions, however, the attachment will ans some of them for you. Many of these Mausers have been completely refinished and rechambered for current ammunition or use the existing caliber.

CLEANING:
From the sounds of it you may want to put it in a tub of solvent for a day or two, then use a nylon bristle brunsh to remove the remaining rust. then wipe with an old rag. Doling this will let you know the amount of pitting and surface damage.

STOCK:
I have used karosene soaked rag for cleaning the very old deteriated stocks and found it to do a very nice job. I know there are probably some very good cleaners out there, but don't remember and brands. YOur local gun smith may have the stuff you need.

BORE:
Sounds like bore cleaner and a brass bruns should clean it it and get rid of the gunk and rust.

VALUE:
Clean it up, then make a determination on value. I am only guessing, but it would seem, after cleaning, around $50.00 to $100.00's and that is prbably high dollar.

As it is a family gun, and apparently has been handed down through the ages, the value is priceless.

If you need the disassem W/photos I can send them email.

HJN

 

[vmi93]

1. I don't know. You might check a forum called milsurpshooter.net to get ideas.
2. Clean it, find a parts diagram, replace the missing parts. Have a gunsmith check headspace (or buy your own gauge).
3. www.e-gunparts.com (Numrich) probably has parts and schematics.
4. Look for rust and pitting in the bore. If there is any, the rifle may still be reasonably "shootable", but the value has just taken a big hit. Remove spiderweb and spiders before firing.
5. It was ORIGINALLY chambered in 7.65x53. Lots of Mausers get rechambered by sporterizers, so have the caliber verified by a gunsmith before you shoot it.
6. As to value, it is probably fairly low given the condition. Search Gunbroker or Auction Arms for successful auctions (with bids) for Argentine Mausers to get an idea.

Have fun. Free rifles are the BEST.

 

[ScottsGT]

My Winchester model 12 had similar rust problems when I got it out of Dad's closet. Simple to fix. Hose it down with Liquid Wrench and let it soak in for 10 mins. Then rub it lightly with some 0000 steel wool and wipe clean with a soft cotton rag. Throw the rag away afterwards. It will be orange with rust. Do this two or three times then coat it down with RIG. ( Rust Inhibiting Grease) RIG is the brand name. Really good stuff.
I was lucky, I had no pitting that you could see, maybe with a microscope, but not to the eye, and it turned out real good. I actually think the rust came from my teenage years when I used to keep it in the trunk of my '66 Pontiac Tempest Convertable to take to the turkey shoots. Never could figure out why the old men there were throwing $100 bills at me for this old gun Dad had for years. Now I know Let's just say I'm glad I kept it!

 

[twoblink]

How bad is the stock??

If it's "really bad" and you just want to redo it..
"Easy Off! Oven cleaner" is the magic.. Spray, leave it on for a while, and then wipe. BARE WOOD. Then you probably want to steam the wood. (wet towel on stock, hot iron, steam steam steam, gunk floats up) then let it try. Sand it down, linseed oil, good to go!

You can get it rebarreled to 308, which is what I'd recommend, (logistical and cheaper ammo not to mention easier to find)

The rust problem? Yep, you need to soak it in solvent, and then wipe it down to assess the damage..

Pics??

 

[Clemson]

What you have is a fine example of German craftsmanship, unfortunately neglected. Your rifle is known as an Argentine Model 91, obviously made for Argentina. It was originally chambered for the 7.65 mm Mauser cartridge as explained above. Several countries adopted this loading including Argentina, Belgium, and others.

The Model 91 is one of the earlier turnbolt Mauser designs, lacking many of the later safety features. Its magazine is a mechanical wonder, preceeding the staggered box magazine by a few years. It lacks the later Mauser "Claw" extractor. Parts can be had from Numrich at www.egunparts.com .

Do not even consider a rebarrel of this rifle to .308 or any other cartridge. It is not capable of containing the pressure safely. Restore it and keep it as a family heirloom. You MAY be able to fire it with the original ammunition if you get it checked out by a competent gunsmith. Virtually all the surplus ammunition that you may find for it, however, is corrosive, so you must clean it religiously after you shoot it. I recommend against using Easy Off to clean up stocks. Easy Off is for ovens. It contains Lye, and Lye does bad things to cellulosic fibers. Just lightly clean the stock with Murphy's oil soap to clean up the surface dirt. If you need to go further seek help from folks who do this more often. It is possible to leach out the oil in the stock with something like whiting without hurting the wood.

Good luck with the project!

Clemson

 

[spacemanspiff]

the prettiest mausers i've ever seen have been 1891 argentians. i'm jealous of your new gift. it sounds like it'd make a great wallhanger.

thats what i intend to do someday, find some decent mausers/garands and put them on display, hopefully with other war items, maybe a luger if i can afford it, and a WWII issue 1911.

 

[Cosmoline]

Depending on how deep the pitting is once you've cleaned the surface rust off, you may be able to bring this one back up to speed. Headspace check is a must, but these were *exceptionally* well-made Mausers. The stocks are often works of art, with deep tiger stripes and NO WARPING even after 100 + years. If the stock is already badly abused, consider cleaning it, removing loose finish and applying many coats of BLO. Mine went from mud-color to deep red/brown with clear tiger stripes the whole length.

I did extensive experimentation with the proper loads for the '91's and posted them on the reloading forum at Paralax's site. Use the search for 7.65 Argentine on that forum and the details should pop up. SUffice it to say I found MUCH better accuracy by re-creating the original loading of the 7.65 Argie. I used a custom .313" 220 grain RN bullet with a high oglive and backed it with a moderate load of various old-style IMR powders--the specs are all on the other forum. My accuracy with spitzer surplus was horrible, but went to MOA with the custom loads.

If upon cleaing the receiver and bore are badly pitted do what I did--strip it down and pack the various parts in cosmoline. That way you'll have spare parts for the pristine Mauser '91 you're going to buy

Another tip--the Great Cosmo Sight Swap. In a wild intuitive leap I realized that the rear apeture sight of the Arisaka fits almost perfectly into the slot on the '91. The Japanese must have stolen the design from Mauser. This is a good "pojo" fix that makes the rifle MUCH easier to shoot without damaging it. Use a nail to afix the Arisaka sight and presto!