New, old Mauser Argentino 1891 questions

[franc]

I know these questions where probably asked a hundred times before so please forgive me....
For Christmas I got myself a Mauser model Argentino 1891. ( I can't shoot it....have shoulder damage....but I can learn and fix!)

She's in good shape relatively speaking for 120-year-old rifle!
No major pitting anywhere, only minor pitting on the right side of the receiver! All the numbers match on all of the parts, which is a relief, considering on the problems I had ages ago with some other rifles.....

So, I picked up a Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891 in the "Engineers Carbine" configuration...this thing looks bomb proof! I wish it could talk and tell me some tales! Trying to track some history here. The serial number is: A6xxx
Based on a bit of research, this rifle appears to been manufactured in Berlin , Germany around 1895. Is that correct?

Since I've never had an old Mauser, I don't know the proper sight pictures. What is the proper setup?? I noticed the front site appears to have an up arrow and then flat section. How does that lineup with the rear site?

I also noticed that there seems to be a bit of movement in the bolt when the rifle is "in battery". What is a safe amount of movement? Or where do I find a go/no go head space gauge for this caliber? ( I can move the bolt handle up and down a bit)

I have spent most of the day taking everything apart and then putting it back together... with a thorough scrub down and cleaning on everything I can get my hands on. I have not yet taken apart the bolt because I don't know how to do that on this Mauser. Is there a video link that would help me?

OHI! I am long winded tonight...
Your help/input and your comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Franc

 

[clearcut]

franc, Welcome to the High Road I wish I could give you more answers to your questions the sights on my '93' just line up like regular sights.If you reload you might be able to make some mouse fart loads so you can shoot it,about 5.5 grs of shot gun powder with 150 grn. lead bullet works for me with no recoil to speak of un-like the Norma loads they kick.Have you tried to put it in to battery with a case or round to see if the slop is still there with the bolt?

CC

 

[mrh477]

I also noticed that there seems to be a bit of movement in the bolt when the rifle is "in battery". What is a safe amount of movement? Or where do I find a go/no go head space gauge for this caliber? ( I can move the bolt handle up and down a bit)

Franc

Old Mausers/military bolt actions are generally pretty loose-fitting. This was done for a purpose--parts are easier to exchange, fitting wasn't too time-consuming, etc. so don't worry about the bolt moving around too much unless it's pretty severe.

DO go get the headspace checked, though. That can never hurt. Rather than spending the money on gauges you might as well just have a gunsmith take a look at it. The fellow at my local shooting range usually does things like that for free. Plus if there's anything else you need to know about but didn't find, a good gunsmith will likely pick it out.

 

[Scooter22]

It's easy to remove the striker assy from the bolt. Cycle the bolt closed on a empty chamber. Put the saftey on(wing verticle) and open the bolt and hold the trigger back. The bolt will pull out. The unscrew the rear of the bolt and seperate. Thats enough to soak and clean old grease and goo. Reverse to assemble.

 

[WYOMan]

When you are dealing with a Mauser military chamber, failing a no-go does not mean it has excessive headspace. If it fails with a field guage, then it is excessive.

 

[franc]

ammo for the Mauser 1891?

Is the current ammo available say at Cabela's (manufactured by PPU) safe to use in this old Mauser? I need to not have this 120 year old rifle blow up in my face!
I'll try to find the specs on the 180 gr. (the only 7.65x53 they had) ammo that I bought ASAP!

 

[tahoe2]

PPU 7.65x53

Prvi website lists the 180 grn soft point about 2500 fps, which I believe is safe for your rifle, if it is in good shape.
It wouldn't hurt to have it checked by a competent gunsmith.
I have fired that specific load in my 1909 Argentine's with no issues and the brass is great for reloading.

 

[franc]

Found it

.... The video that shows me how to take apart a Mauser 1891 bolt.
Man that spring is stronge!
Anyway, I was able to get everything apart and cleaned up. Getting the bolt back together required a couple trial and error Runs. Had to get firing pin back to the proper depth.

Given the fact that the rifle "appears" to be 120 years old....everything was in surprisingly great shape on the inside of the bolt, and everywhere else too. Those Mauser brothers were geniuses ahead of their time!

All I need now is for somebody to check the headspace for me.

The local gunsmith is closed on Sunday! Darn it!

I feel safer with the given Ammo specs...thanks folks! 180 grain soft point is going to make a nice sized hole in the targets. With the "Engineer" carbine barrel of approx. 17" , the report on this will probably sound like a cannon!
Range report as soon as I can.
Pics later Sunday

 

[rcmodel]

Go Choot it!!

If the outside is as good as you say it is, the inside likely is too.

ALL commercial ammo of that caliber has been loaded to safe pressure for that rifle since I was a boy.

71 years ago.

rc

 

[franc]

keeping my promise

Allright folks, here is my first attempt at posting pics on this forum.....

here goes,



here is a pic of the only area of pitting. Should I be concerned? Year of Manufacture, 1895 ?


Darn it, who let the dogs out? Thanks to Imgur for the pics! Just paying my "floof" tax

 

[WYOMan]

That is in really good shape. The pitting isn't bad. It looks like someone cut the stock where the pitting is to repair it. You could leave it that way or have someone try to finish the repair. Other than that, from the pictures, it is a nice looking piece. The old carbines like that are harder to come by than their full length brothers. Nice score. Even if it fails the field guage, it's a nice looking rifle to keep around.

 

[franc]

Thanks! and a question or two or three

Thank you for the comment!
I thought the same thing...if she can't be shot at least she would make a heck of a wall hanger/discussion piece!

I had never seen a Mauser "Engineer Carbine" before! Seen plenty of different Mausers...never this configuration. I knew she was mine the minute I saw her!

I literally spent most of the day doing a complete tear down. I even gave her a bath!
I scrubbed (with wood soap designed for furniture) 120 years of dirt, oil and God knows what else off the stock. Also, lightly scrubbed the stock with wet 800 grit sandpaper to dislodge any surface dirt, etc.
You should have seen the dirt/paste that came off of her! Ohi!

On the section of pitting, I cleaned the area with acetone to remove oil, grease, etc.. Then I lightly sanded with wet 800 grit, recleaned the area with Acetone, then I used some metal restoring spray paint on the masked off area.
Unless the pitting gets worse (don't know how that would happen), I'm going to leave things alone....unless ya'll think I could have a structural/safety issue?

So, the question: What did/does the period correct sling (from Argentina) look like? Leather? Fabric? Rope? Flat or braided or combo?

Somewhere I can go to see pics that would help me figure the various markings/proof stamps, etc. that are on this rifle??.. (I know she was born in the Loewe factory in Berlin, Germany) It's all the other markings ALL over the place that I want to learn about!

 

[tark]

Wow, that crest is intact. That is rare for an Argentine Mauser. The PPU ammo is perfectly safe in your carbine. And don't worry about a little play in the bolt. When you chamber a round you will notice that most (or all) of the play is gone. I have two 1891 rifles, the bolt rattles around on both of them, until you chamber a round. One of them is a 98% gun, so you can't say the bolt rattles around because of wear.

I mean, look at your gun! It has obviously fired a LOT of ammo and all the parts are matching. If, say, the bolt was not matching, THEN I might have concerns.

That A prefix means you gun was one of the first ones made. The two hands, I call it the "Handshake" stamp, just ahead of the word "Mauser" are the Argentine acceptance stamp, meaning the gun passed final inspection. The same stamp should be found on the rear of the bolt, under the safety flag, and on the bolt handle near the knob. The proof stamp is ahead of the handshake stamp and over the chamber.

I have never seen an Argentine Engineer's Carbide. Didn't know they existed! They aren't even mentioned in Ludwig Olsen's classic "Bolt Action Mausers". You have a rare bird there, I think. If for no other reason than the fact it's crest is intact. I'm thinking it is probably worth a lot more than you paid for it!

Take it out and shoot it!

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

All of my Mausers have the short front inverted V sight post and a very shallow V on the rear sight, whether the ladder is flipped up or completely down. It is a little more difficult to keep the rear V, the front post, and the target aligned, but I think that is what makes them a relatively accurate rifle. Aim small, miss small.

I picked up an 1891 last weekend in very good condition, however the crest has been ground off, but it is a later model built in Loewe with a S/N M06XX. Yours with the A prefix would have been built probably in the first year of manufacture. I took it out shooting today and blew the heck out of a #10 can at 100 yards.

 

[tark]

Forgot to mention. PLEASE....do not modify or refinish or otherwise alter that little gem in any way shape or form. I suspect that it has considerable monetary value, as milsurps go. If you go beyond careful cleaning you will destroy it's collector value. It looks like a small piece of the stock is missing on the right side by the receiver ring. Leave it alone. It is part of the history of the gun.

Collectors like original, unaltered guns with the original finish, no matter how worn. Collectors have lots of money, and they aren't afraid to spend it..... But if you modify that gun, it will lose half its value at least. Then it would only be a shooter.

You can shoot and enjoy using that gun for years, without hurting its value, but only if it is left as is. Don't forget to post some pics of its range prowess.

Good shooting

 

[dickydalton]

I have one of those also and was fun to shoot, though I haven't shot it in years.

 

[dickydalton]

Here's a couple pics. The crest is there but worn.

 

[franc]

there was an attempt..

I tried to cobble together a way to have the new/old 1891 (1895) Argentine be able to shoot yesterday. She went bang just like she should.
The report woke the dead!
Since the weather was so bad and I was short on time and daylight, I decided to only put 10 rounds of the PPU 180gr soft point down range.

So that I could kind of see the results, I choose to shoot the 50 yard range.

Out of the 10 shots fired, 9 shots were on the paper. I have got to find a way to see the front sight better!
Anyway, I'm high (+6-8") and to the left (-4-6") some.

Will try to post a pic later today.

What tool is used to adjust the front sight? Anybody have a picture of the tool? Is it like the Ak47 or Mosin Nagant tools?

Several folks came over to see the blunder buss / cannon that I was using. Nobody had seen a Mauser Engineer Carbine before.
I had as much fun talking with folks about the rifle as I did figuring out how to get on paper!

 

[franc]

Finally!

I finally found the time to post the results of my first outing with my new / old
Mauser modelo Argentino 1891...

I had to cobble together a way to shoot the gun...semi/ full hokey attempt at a home made sled....

The results still suck...but I was still pleased to even get rounds on the paper.

One of the 10 rounds fired just barely clipped the top edge!! Still on the paper!

With this particular blunderbuss (16 7/8" barrel), what are the expectations regarding accuracy?...
say with factory 7.65x53 PPU 180 grain ammo or similar

Is it worth purchasing a REAL lead sled? if so...which one?

 

[clearcut]

I have a steady point that works OK there's a picture of one an the bolt AR thread.
It's got a scissor jack on a frame with some adjusters,up down & left & right.

CC

 

[Mk VII]

Consider getting Kuhnhausen's shop manual on the Mauser bolt actions.

 

[franc]

Type of manual?

I see More Google homework on the horizon. Found it!

How do I make windage adjustments on the front sight? Is there a special tool? If so, where do I find this tool!

 

[Mk VII]

You'll probably have to knock it over with a brass punch, unless there is another existing tool that can be adapted.
Kuhnhausen's book is more of a rebuild-and-modify manual and mostly concentrates on the more numerous 98/96/93 actions but there is some stuff on the M91 in there. I lent my copy to someone and haven't got it back yet.

 

[franc]

was thinking, about a 1891 front sight tool and..

that maybe the front sight adjustment tool from a mosin nagant or a AK or similar could be used / modified to do the job...???

I cant be the first person that wanted to Accurately and quickly (relatively) move a front sight on a Mauser..Given how many of the various mil-surplus Mauser rifles there are out in the world....Somebody MUST have come up with a adjustable tool. The search begins!

 

[iagbarrb]

I do not have an argentinian mauser but 2 germans 1898 K
Chambered 7.65.
Ammo is not so easy to find. I do have about 2000 1935 built bullets.
Corrosive ammo. Have to clean the gun very carefully after shooting.
Regarding the accuracy, at 300 meters I have pretty good groups. The impacts you show in the target are not as good as such a weapon normally makes. Check the integrity of your barrel. Old mauser barrels might have injuries left by the corrosive ammo used in those old times. Mausers are extreme accurate if in good shape. I do not believe I am wrong if i tell they migt be better than modern rifles.