1894 marlin in 44-40 w/.441 groove dia.

[DMH]

Was not sure if I should have started a new thread or continued on with this one. Let me know if there is a correct way of posting, I'm kind of new at this.

I fired 15 rounds through the 1894 Marlin this evening 10 rounds of .427 dia. lead Hornady 205 grain over 6.8 grains of Winchester 231 and five rounds of .430 dia. Red River solf lead bullets over 6.8 grains Winchester 231. I was unable to recover any of the fired bullets. All shots were at 50 yards. I know I need to drift the front sights, but for now I am just looking at groups, keyholes and sealing the bullet into the over sized grooves. The accuracy was far better with the .430 dia bullets. I do not see any keyholes, but let me know what you guys think.


.427 dia @ 50 yrds

.427 dia @ 50 yrds

.430 dia @ 50 yrds

Close up "key holes?"

What should I expect at 50 yards for the cartridge.

Thanks for the help David

 

[CraigC]

Any tips on improving my photo quality?

The biggest thing people can do to improve their photos is to turn off the flash. Use plenty of natural lighting but never in direct sunlight. Outdoors, in a shaded area or better yet, on an overcast day, makes for the best pictures. You don't need a big fancy camera to take nice pics. Some of my best were taken with an old 1.2MP Olympus.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I agree with everything CraigC said about photos. The most important thing is to turn off the flash and use plenty of available light. And take multiple exposures so you can pick and choose the best.

As far as your accuracy is concerned, I think you have solved your problems. Those .430 bullets are making a pretty good group. I could not do any batter with open sights and my poor eyesight.

Your bullets are not key holing. Key holing happens when bullets are tumbling and go through the target sideways.

Like this:

 

[DMH]

Driftwood, That target you posted with the two holes in it were those actual holes from shooting at the target or did you make that to use as an example for me to understand keyholes? I was going to try some bullets at .432 and see if they will chamber. If they camber I'll see how they shoot. I also need to drift my front sight slightly to the right, which brings up another question for you. when I look at the front sight blade it looks as if the blade has been bump at some point and has a slight bend to the left. So instead of drifting the dovetail to the right should I try to straighten the front sight blade. I have not attempted anything on the front sight yet because I had visions of me doing something stupid and snap off the front sight blade. I can post photo of front sight if needed. Thanks for your input as to accuracy.

DMH

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Actual target. I used to have a Lee/Enfield that keyholed with everything I put through it. That target was placed at about 25 yards. I had several targets like it from that gun, from different distances. The interesting thing was, even though the bullets were tumbling like crazy, they still hit the target I was aiming at. Eventually I sold the gun when I found another one that shot better. I really doubt your bullets are tumbling, the holes would be bullet shaped like mine. Or at least they would be irregular looking. And you would not have such a good group.

Regarding the bent front sight, depending on how badly it's bent, probably better to just replace it. It's a lot easier to break a front sight than it is to straighten it. Of course if you drive it out of the dovetail, you may have good luck laying it flat on a hard surface and pounding it flat.

If you can see it is bent when sighting the gun, and it is bent enough to bother you, then think about bending it back or replacing it.

If you have a 3/8" dovetail, you can replace it with a modern sight. Most dovetails are standardized at 3/8" measuring the flat at the bottom of the dovetail. Here is a photo of the front sight on my old Marlin. It is probably not original, I think it is a Lyman sight that somebody put in at some point. I always liked it because of the tiny ivory bead set into the blade.






Marbles makes some very nice sights.

http://www.marblearms.com/frontSights.html

Here is a photo of one of their 'gold bead' (actually brass) contour front sights mounted on my Uberti replica of the Winchester 1873. It really is not as scratched up on top as it looks. To order one of Marbles sights, you actually order them from Brownells.





Brownells also has a couple of other front sights you might be interested in.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=24667/Product/MARLIN-FRONT-SIGHT

A few years ago I had a smith mount that inexpensive, square looking front sight on a Winchester 1892 rifle of mine. That sight is meant to be filed to whatever shape you want. Here it is on my Winchester:



So there are a few options you may want to consider instead of straightening the sight on your Marlin. Or you might just try driving it out and placing it on a flat, hard surface and try straightening it out with a few well place hammer blows. I would not try to bend it while still mounted in the gun. That's a good way to break it.

 

[DMH]

DriftwoodJohnson, Thank you again, you have been more than helpful. I have learned about keyhole targets, learned about the lead bullet base bumping up and learned how to post photos. This has been an enjoyable project for me. I will post pictures of my front sight and will post more targets as I sight in the rifle. I like my front sight so I will try not to damage it.

David

 

[DMH]

I took the front sight off of the 1894 Marlin and straightened the blade. I think this front sight is called German silver blade. Here are some photos to the sight after repairs, and some outside photos with better lighting. Some extra rifles in the photos just for fun.

















DMH

 

[DMH]

Just to update this thread, I have been using A2400 powder started low and worked up to 16 grains and now I'm at 18.3 and 18.5 grains. With the .427" diameter lead RNFP bullets accuracy was fair but not great and the lower power loads were worse. I feel the .427" bullets were not sealing even when the charge was great enough to bump up the base of the bullet. The .430" bullets were better and at 18.3 to 18.5 the bullets were sealing well. The rifle sound was a sharp crack when fired vs. the odd cork gun sound with the lighter loads. The best results has been with the .432" Mav Dutchman bullets loaded as dropped and pan lubed (not seized). These were loaded over 18.5 grains of A2400 and would produce a 5 shot vertical string at 50 yards with all holes on the target touching each other. The rifle sure likes this load and I will be loading 25 more of the .432" and try them. Seating and crimping these .432 needs to be perfect or the crimp will not allow the bullet to chamber in the rifle. I've been seating and crimping in the same die at station #3 on my Dillion progressive, but plan on backing off the crimp in station #3 and use a Lee FCD in station #4. This I hope will improve my crimps with the over-sized bullets (.432") The .430" are easier to load and crimping in the seating die was working well with that bullet. The .430" bullets over 18.3 grains of A2400 were producing 3-4" groups at 50 yards.



DMH

 

[Jim Watson]

Good information.

You might end up opening up the chamber neck just a smidgen so the .432s chamber freely. What brass are you using? I think Winchester is thinnest.

One criticism, though.
I would definitely want safety glasses while doing such experimental shooting in an old rifle. Actually I want safety glasses for all sorts of shooting. Admittedly, I have to have corrective glasses for any waking activity so it is kind of automatic for me.

 

[DMH]

Using Winchester, Starline and Remington brass. The range trip this weekend went well, but I still am not getting the base of the lead bullet to bump up and seal completely. The target groups have been alright, and I have moved the rear sight to get more on target. Still working on getting the right load. The first two photos are of targets set at 50 yards.






The squares are 1"

We set up this gong at 100 yards and could make hits with every shot, it is about a 12" or 14" metal disc.


DMH

 

[lemaymiami]

For anyone wanting to improve the quality of their close-up photography, there's one or two small things you can do that will make a dramatic difference.... The first is to mount your camera (any camera from inexpensive to high quality) on a tripod, then use your time delay or cable release (the trick is that if the camera is not moving at all -- your pics will be much, much sharper..). The second easy to do item involves a trip to the craft store where you'll buy 3mm foam sheets that kids use for craft projects.... They come in a variety of colors and will provide a great contrast to any closeup shots.

I do a bit of writing for magazines and that's how I get my pics up to snuff for closeup work..... and of course a bunch of pics on digitals first, then close examination on the computer screen to chose the best...

 

[DMH]

I want to apologize for the poor judgement on my part for letting my daughter shot with out safety glasses. I was sent a nice PM and this was pointed out to me. Thanks! The glasses do no good on the bench or in the bag.

DMH