1911 Chamber Too Tight

[Welding Rod]

I have a Kimber 1911 (Grand Raptor) that has a chamber that is too tight. With the barrel removed cartridges won't drop in. They have to be pushed in with considerable thumb force to seat the last 1/16 - 1/8 inch. I have regular feeding issues (failure to go completely in to battery) as a result. The extractor tension is good and it is properly fit.

This is with several domestic loads as well as with my handloads with a couple different .452" lead bullets.

Kimber won't pay to ship the gun back, and they won't let me send in just the barrel to get it fixed - they demand the whole gun.

Is there a way to do a proper job at home polishing out 1 or 2 thousands without screwing up the edge in the barrel that the front of the case headspaces on? Any tools or bit made for this job? I have a nice Foredom tool, but don't want to bubba it up either.

Thanks

 

[1911Tuner]

It's more likely a short, abrupt leade...throat...that certain bullet profiles are getting wedged into. Kart's barrels are notorious for this, as well as being slightly smaller than ordnance spec. I finish reamed a Kart barrel for a guy this past Sunday for the same thing that you're describing.

Any gunsmith with a .45 Auto finishing reamer should be able to take care of it in 5 minutes.

If you're within driving distance of Lexington NC, I'll do it.

 

[ku4hx]

I had the same problem with our KP90s and in fact with every cartridge I've ever loaded for a semi auto. The tight fit to me is just a step in the process with the next step being to get the cartridge dimensions that work.

You have to adjust cartridge OAL to not impinge on the rifling and taper crimp the bullet to get the neck diameter to where it needs to be. I shoot for .001" less than the design spec and that usually works very well. I also size/resize to .451". .452" simply didn't work in any of our 45s. I also found some cast round nose bullets to not work. Notably Lee's 1R RN. I had to seat it too deeply to get it to chamber. For that reason I went with their 230 grain TL TC and an older 190 grain SWC ... both at .451".

 

[texagun]

I have a Kimber 1911 (Grand Raptor) that has a chamber that is too tight. With the barrel removed cartridges won't drop in......Kimber won't pay to ship the gun back, and they won't let me send in just the barrel to get it fixed - they demand the whole gun.

That doesn't speak very highly of Kimber's customer service. Very disappointing. I would take Tuner's advice and find a good gunsmith to take care of it. It should be cheaper than sending it back to Kimber.

 

[Fishbed77]

Reports like these are why I don't even consider Kimber as an option any more.

 

[RogersPrecision]

Send your barrel to a smith with a chamber reamer.
Minimal expense/time.
Problem solved.

 

[Welding Rod]

Reports like these are why I don't even consider Kimber as an option any more.

I have a TLE as well. BOTH guns had slide stops that would get hit by the bullets in the mag and lock the slides back prematurely. That was easy enough to fix with a file.

Both guns are very pretty, and very accurate, but had (TLE) and have (Grand Raptor) function problems out of the box.

 

[smalls]

I have a TLE as well. BOTH guns had slide stops that would get hit by the bullets in the mag and lock the slides back prematurely. That was easy enough to fix with a file.

Sometimes things don't get picked up at QC. It happens, and if you have the knowledge/tools to fix it and save time that's cool. But if they're not willing to make things right on their dime, that's not good customer service at all.

 

[1911Tuner]

On tight chambers...

Sometimes, it's intentional...like with the Kart. In theory, it provides a slight edge in accuracy, and every Kart barrel I've been involved with has shown exceptional accuracy. I also finish ream them as a matter of SOP...reliability fanatic that I am...and I've never dropped a finishing reamer in a Kart barrel without getting chips. It's just the way they make'em.

Sometimes, it's a simple matter of economics and trying to stretch the useful life of a reamer. The logistics of mass production.

Reamers are expensive, and reamers get dull...and are resharpened. With each resharpening, the reamer gets a tiny bit smaller, and so does the finished chamber.

 

[Jim Watson]

I grumble about these alleged "minimum match chambers" which are actually undersize.
(The dimensions on the SAAMI drawing for standard and NM .45 ACP are The Same, although you could reasonably expect a real target gun to hold to the small end of tolerance.)

I have one of Brand W which was brilliantly accurate, but had unaccountable failures to breech up. FLG ran in a sharp reamer and got out an amazing pile of shavings from the neck and throat area. The gun was no less accurate, but did its best with a different load and gives no trouble feeding.

There is another aftermarket barrel with the notation in Brownells that it will not pass a SAAMI chamber gauge which makes it way undersize. It will supposedly shoot factory ammunition, but since it is marketed to people afraid to put lead bullets down a "polygon" bore, that does not seem a good approach.

Then there are the low roller mass produced guns with undersize chambers because they sharpened the reamer one time too many.

 

[Rinspeed]

Reports like these are why I don't even consider Kimber as an option any more.

At least they don't use some crappy two piece barrel like some of their competition.

 

[MCMXI]

Welding Rod, if it makes you feel any better, my Ed Brown Special Forces Carry had to go back for a similar issue and I had to pay for shipping one way. From day one I often had to tap the rear of the slide that final 1/8" to ensure that the barrel would lock up. The problem got worse as the barrel fouled, or that was my impression anyway. EB told me that the chamber was a little short but it's been fine since coming back from EB. My other two EBs were "perfect" from day one so even a $2,300 semi-custom pistol can slip through the QC process.

 

[mljdeckard]

Well, here's MY story.

I started handloading about a year ago. I read all about the 'plunk' test, and got a case gauge. The mistake I made, was I assumed that my Kimber was my most restrictive chamber. I was wrong. My Para is worse. I made a bunch of handloads using the Kimber as a test for it. They worked. when I went to shoot them in the Para, I had failures to go into battery, and embarrassing force field-stripping at the range, including one where I drove the slide so hard I yanked a bullet loose, spilled the powder on the bench, and had to rod the bullet free. Yeah.

So I sent the gun back to Para, because of a bad ambidextrous safety, and asked them to look at the chamber while they had it. They sent it back, and said that they did. Now, it's only been recently that I have been able to get more .45 bullets. This time I took them OAL down .002, used a case gauge, and a Lee Factory Crimp die. I decided that the first thing I needed to do was cycle through the old ammo to be able to have a single standard, not keeping a pile of 'old bad' and 'new good' ammo. I did that this weekend. I took out the Kimber and cranked through all of the long ones, doing mostly double-tap drills. Now I can test the new loads to make sure that they work well in all of my guns.

 

[Welding Rod]

I went ahead and ordered a finish reamer from Brownells for about 85 bucks. Should be here Tuesday, so I can get the gun up in time for my next match. I think my TLE is a little tight too, though nothing like the G. Raptor, so I can hit it as well.

 

[1911Tuner]

Just in case you've never used a hand reamer...a few things to remember.

Use oil and plenty of it. If you can't find a good cutting oil, FP10 will do. Just don't use it dry. Any oil is better than no oil.

Be careful to keep it straight and don't let it wobble. I like to chuck the barrel up in a lathe so I can use both hands to guide it in.

Careful. It's razor sharp and it'll cut the pea soup out of you.

Turn the reamer as it enters the hole, and keep it turning as you back it out of the hole. If you have to make a second pass, clean the chips off and re-oil it.

It cuts clockwise. Never turn a reamer backward.

Take it slow. A new chamber reamer will cut faster and deeper than you think it will.

 

[Welding Rod]

I have never reamed a chamber before, so thanks for the tips!

 

[Welding Rod]

Well I got the chamber reamed and it feeds my dummy reloads no problem, and all my factory and hand loads plunk in the chamber freely.

The head space is fine using a no-go gauge.

I almost immediately found the chamber had been adequately reamed at the factory. The problem was there was a bump inside the chamber from where "45 ACP" was stamped with too much force. That was totally fouling up the feeding process. The reamer was able to cut the bump off.

Second time I had over stamping screw up a gun. I bought a Garand from CMP and the serial number was stamped so deep in the receiver that it would jamb the bolt fully to the rear.

 

[0to60]

Welding Rod, if it makes you feel any better, my Ed Brown Special Forces Carry had to go back for a similar issue and I had to pay for shipping one way. From day one I often had to tap the rear of the slide that final 1/8" to ensure that the barrel would lock up. The problem got worse as the barrel fouled, or that was my impression anyway. EB told me that the chamber was a little short but it's been fine since coming back from EB. My other two EBs were "perfect" from day one so even a $2,300 semi-custom pistol can slip through the QC process.

Stories like this are keeping me from shelling out the $$$ for a high end 1911. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse for this. If RIA can mass produce 1911's with the correct size chamber for < $500, what could Ed Brown's excuse for this possibly be???

 

[1911Tuner]

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse for this. If RIA can mass produce 1911's with the correct size chamber for < $500, what could Ed Brown's excuse for this possibly be???

Well...In all fairness, neither of them make their own barrels. It would seem that gauging them at the point of installation wouldn't be too much to ask...but apparently it is. I'm not sure what conclusions we can draw from that.

 

[MCMXI]

Stories like this are keeping me from shelling out the $$$ for a high end 1911. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no excuse for this. If RIA can mass produce 1911's with the correct size chamber for < $500, what could Ed Brown's excuse for this possibly be???

I have no idea how Ed Brown implements their QC program and I hadn't realized that Ed Brown doesn't make their own barrels. I also don't know what condition EB receives the barrels in. Are they 100% finished and "simply" require fitting? Maybe EB specifies that barrel QC is performed by their supplier ... who knows. Regardless, I certainly wouldn't let my one data point affect your decision. The issue was resolved to my satisfaction, all three of my EBs are great pistols and I would still recommend an EB 1911. For the record, I'm about to send the slide of my Dan Wesson V-Bob back to DW for repair. The rear sight dovetail is oversized and not horizontal. I didn't realize this until the rear sight fell out one day while shooting.

 

[0to60]

For the record, I'm about to send the slide of my Dan Wesson V-Bob back to DW for repair. The rear sight dovetail is oversized and not horizontal. I didn't realize this until the rear sight fell out one day while shooting.

Again, no excuse. They're charging PREMIUM money for these things, and they're telling us "each pistol is worked on by a master gunsmith..." Its incredible that the "master gunsmith" could miss such obvious things. If this person is missing things like that, what exactly are you getting for all that extra money?? I can see something like this happening with a mass produced gun, but not one that's allegedly received hours of personal attention from a "master gunsmith".

 

[MCMXI]

0to60, you seem to be more bothered by this than me and I'm the one having to send pistols and parts back! I bought a DW Valor and V-Bob because I kept reading how great they were and that they were a better value then the EBs. Based on the two I have, my advice is that if you decide to buy a DW 1911 and aren't able to look through a number of them, I would suggest that you buy from Dave Severns of Severns Custom. He personally inspects every DW that he sells and he knows what he's looking at.

This thread should probably get back on topic. Well done to Welding Rod for figuring out the problem and fixing it himself.

 

[1911Tuner]

I hadn't realized that Ed Brown doesn't make their own barrels. I also don't know what condition EB receives the barrels in. Are they 100% finished and "simply" require fitting?

Not even Colt makes their own barrels in-house any more. It's doubtful if Ed Brown actually manufactures any parts.

Kart markets their Easy Fit barrels for the amateur, and generally work out very well as long as their instructions are followed to the letter. But...I have yet to install a Kart barrel that I didn't have to drop a finishing reamer into...whether Easy Fit or full hard fit...and I've always gotten chips from them.

The chambers are slightly undersized, but that's not the problem. It's the short, abrupt leade that lends problems with some bullet profiles...most notably SWC, but often...as with the one that I finished recently...also truncated cone unless seated a bit too deep.
I ran into one that gave a little trouble with hardball when loaded to minimum spec OAL of 1.260 inch. The rounds would chamber, but the bullet ogive was forced into the leade so tightly that ejecting a live round was pretty tough. The cure took all of 5 minutes, and the headspace wasn't altered.

 

[HILLBILLY-06]

I have an older KIMBER ULTRA CARRY II, I purchased it brand new & never had any issues at all. BUT I have had it for a long time, several years now and counting. I think it is a fine example of craftsmanship, superb accuracy from an ultra lightwieght compact .45ACP. I have shot a well used KIMBER CUSTOM SHOP .45ACP, that was very nice, but no matter how hard I tired, I couldn't group it as tight as my Ultra carry. (Both) pistols were about the same vintage, but I saw no reason what so ever to give the extra money they are asking for the custom shop .45, being as I had better shot groups from my smaller cheaper model. I never have had a failure to feed, eject, or fire from any of the older KIMBER Pistols, I have shot one more older model Kimber pistol, but can't remember which one it was?
I guess I do understand what that guy was saying about having to bump the slide to finish chambering a round to fire the pistol. I had an older Springfield Armory compact model that did that every time I fired it, with various ammo types. But once in a blue moon, it would empty a rapid fire 7 round mag. Only to reload the same magazine, with the same ammo out of the same box and have to start bumping the slide to complete the battery to fire it, after only 7 rounds. (I bought it used) but was never happy with it and got rid of it before I got my KIMBER. I just couldn't stand that from a gun, and it was very frustrating. I din't consider fixing it, I got rid of it all together. I wish I would have read this post a few years ago, then I might have kept the old Springfield and maybe had it looked at to see if it was a similar or same issue with over stamping, or different chamber specs... "Thanks for the post" it is very usefull information to see...

 

[0to60]

0to60, you seem to be more bothered by this than me and I'm the one having to send pistols and parts back! I bought a DW Valor and V-Bob because I kept reading how great they were and that they were a better value then the EBs. Based on the two I have, my advice is that if you decide to buy a DW 1911 and aren't able to look through a number of them, I would suggest that you buy from Dave Severns of Severns Custom. He personally inspects every DW that he sells and he knows what he's looking at.

I am! I'm all wound up over this. I've been wanting to splurge and get myself something premium, like a Nighthawk, Ed Brown or Wilson. But I've heard more than a few stories like yours from folks. I want to get something nice, but I don't want to fall into the trap of believing something is better just because its so expensive. If a gun is truly hand built by a master gunsmith, I can't see it having such obvious problems. I'm worried that I'm going to pay $2500 and get something no better than my Springfield Mil Spec.