1911 Gunsmithing punches for beginner

[bosshoff]

I need to get some punches to detail strip my 1911's. I am a complete beginner, and would like to get a "starter set" of punches and gunsmithing tools from Brownells. What do I need as a minimum? If you could give part #'s that would be great. Also if anyone has any other sugestions for "must have" stuff, i'd love to hear. Thanks.

 

[1911Tuner]

Punchy

Howdy Biss,

You don't need a set of punches. Everything except the mainspring housing pin will dang near fall out of its own weight. If you've got an
AR-15, you've got the perfect armorer's tool right there...The firing pin.
Okay...The link pin and ejector pin require a punch...but those aren't normally removed in a detain-strip.

The 1911..in its original guise...was designed to be completely stripped and reassembled using its parts as tools.

I take it that you're gonna strip your Sistema. Here's a link that'll help ya.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56796

Luck!

Tuner

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Can't argue with the man but I might suggest

Can't argue with the man but I might suggest the Wilson .45 combination tool and bushing wrench as a handy, simple and cheap enough thing to have.

This is a quite distinct thing from a "starter" set but then for my money must have starts with a Bridgeport which in my case I do not have.

 

[bosshoff]

Thanks for the replies. (Tuner, check your PM's, I'll be sending you a package tomorrow.) The mainspring housing pin is exactly the pin that I am eyeballing. I thought it was about time to get some real tools, and stop scrounging around for decent screw drivers etc. I printed out directions for detail stripping the 70 series. I am just looking ahead to an order I will be placing at Brownells for assorted goodies.

 

[Dave Sample]

The Lyman Punch Set with the brass hammer is a neat thing to have and the punches are made for "Smithin'. I have several sets but they are the ones I use the most. A punch is a nice thing to have to get the "One and Only Tuner Tool" out of the slide." It is hard to get that firing pin out without one. I guess you could use a ball point pen, but that seems rather crude to me.

 

[Dean Taylor]

I have the Lyman punch set and they are great--however -- I also have and use the most some brass punches I made up from brass stock bought at the hobby shop. I think Bill Z taught me this "cheap trick". I try not to use a steel punch if I can.

Dean
[email protected]

 

[1911Tuner]

Tuner Tool

thing to have to get the "One and Only Tuner Tool" out of the slide."


And an AR-15 firing pin got in the slide how?

Oh...You can use the hammer strut to depress the firing pin and spring. Colt's new struts won't do it, but you can use the bottom of the bushing flange in a pinch.

 

[macavada]

To get out the firing pin stop and push in the firing pin in one move, I use a Q-Tip with one end cut off. The cardboard stem has just the right bite to grip on to the flat surface of the firing pin and not slip. It might not work so well with a gun with a firing pin stop that has a tight fit, but I haven't encountered that yet.

 

[grendelbane]

You mean I shouldn't use ball point pens to remove the firing pin?

Is that like "I" before "E", except after Budweiser?

I always thought it was a clever way of combining my first and second amendment rights.


Back to the drawing board.

 

[Jim K]

If you really want, on a standard 1911 the safety can be removed without a tool; the pin on the safety can be used to remove the firing pin; the firing pin can be used as a punch to remove the mainspring housing pin (you use the slide as a hammer).

Jim

 

[dfariswheel]

I like the Brownell's replaceable pin punches.

These are a steel handle with nice knurling for a good grip. The actual punches are straight pins with a flared head that locks into the handle.

The advantages of the replaceable punches are:
It's cheaper and faster to replace a pin, than it is to replace an entire punch.

These are available as individuals or a set.

The set comes as three punches, sizes .039, .060, and .091.
These are available with 2" or 2 1/2" pins.

You can also buy short starter pin punches to fit the handles.

I have pretty much all the various size, length, and type of replacement pins available.

 

[1911Tuner]

1911 Tools

FWEEEET! Keenan nailed this one. The 1911 pistol, in its original guise, is its own tool kit. The only pins that require a punch are the mainspring housing pins, and the ejector pin. Since the mainspring cap retaining pin...the little bitty one at the top right of the housing and the ejector pin aren't a regular part of detail-stripping...they're not removed under normal circumstances.

In a pinch, a blunted nail can serve to remove the mainspring housing pin.
I've pushed'em out with the thumb safety pin and the firing pin. The hammer and sear pins should practically fall out by turning the pistol left side down and bumping it with the heel of your hand. They'll at least move far enough to grab'em with your thumb and finger. The pointed flange
of the bushing will depress the plunger spring in order to get the thumb safety back in...or the firing pin can also be used. Don't try to use the tip
of the pin...Two conves surfaces rll off one another. Point the pin down and use the side. The firing pin can also be used to align the sear and disconnect with the sear pin holes. If the grip screw slots are as per original design, a case rim is your screwdriver.

An AR-15/M-16 firing pin really is all you need in the way of an armorer's tool except remove the ejector pin. The stepped diameters fit all the holes perfectly. Brownells has'em for 6 bucks, unless you go for one of the expensive ones, which is unnecessary unless it's going to be used as a firing pin in a rifle. Those pins are for cheap, expedient field replacements,
but will serve perfectly for stripping a 1911. For reassembling a Series 80,
it's a perfect slave pin for lining up the trigger lever and the sear/disconnect assembly...and if the end of the hammer strut is of the correct dimensions, it's also good for this task.

Cheers all!

Tuner

 

[Sisco]

Punches are handy to have around. Stay away from the cheap ones like you see on ebay, they will bend without much effort at all.

 

[Bill Z]

Get the lyman set and while your at it go ahead and get a gunsmith screwdriver set, the blades are parralell ground so you don't mar your screws.(they even have a pachmyer set at Wally World for 10.00 or so that wil work great) This field expedient repair crap is exactly that. Learn how to use it when we are invaded and your under fire etc, blah, blah, blah(that and all the other cool tactical message board stuff), but when you are at the bench doing maintenence, use tools designed for the job to keep from marring a 1,000.00 gun with a 2.00 shortcut. Even the services have armorers and they have armorors tool kits and all of that neat stuff. Just because something can be done doesn't mean its the smart way to do it. (however I do offer refinishing services, so maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot.)

Daddy always told me it's better to work smart than to work hard.

Sometimes I think we are our own worst enemies.

 

[Dave Sample]

I have about $10,000.00 worth of hand tools and a couple of machines in my shop. Maybe 50 to 60 different punches that I use including two surgical Stainless Steel ones for special jobs. I have carried a 1/2 90 for over 50 years and have yet had to work on one away from a bench or some kind of indoor area. I have 4 Dremels in service now and maybe one or two spares here and there. I have assorted jigs and stuff for various pistol work and almost all of this is within arms reach. The idea that you have to be covered in mud, blood , and beer in a foxhole and work on your 1911 is silly beyond words. This almost never happens because when a warrior needs help, he has people that do that and they hand him another one. All branches of the military have these people and I know this because I was one. We had shops aboard the carriers that could build a gun from scratch. I am convinced that you need the proper tools for the job and those of you that do not have these tools are handicapped if you are trying to work on these little machines. I would guess that about $500.00 would get you started and then you could see if you have the talent for this kind of work. It's a Gypsy Curse, you know! I can still do a 20mm cannon in the dark upside down. It is like swimming. Once you learn it, you never forget it. We had 16 planes with 4 20mm cannons in each one and they had to run 20 hours a day. We had the tools on our belt to do this and it was about 30 lbs of stuff. So start with some punches and screwdrivers and go from there. It's fun and good for the soul.

 

[grendelbane]

>So start with some punches and screwdrivers and go from there. It's fun and good for the soul.>

Oh Gosh!

I started there accidentally! Poor boy and all.

Now it seems to be a philosophy. Or maybe a religion.

I will detail strip & clean a 1911 for some one I like. I expect them to watch me, so they can do it the next time.

Some people will wish to pay some one else for this simple procedure.

I understand the economic principle behind this.

Still, would they wish me to make love their wife, simply because I am a superior lover, and pay more attention to detail?

 

[Dave Sample]

Well......................................excuse me!

 

[grendelbane]

Oh Gosh!

Maybe I am a little bit cranky!

I am looking at 10 hour days all next week, but that is no excuse.

High temperature, high humidity, well, you get the idea.

I think that I am going to bed. Everyone have a good night.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Man I feel for you on those 10 hour days. I certainly understand what it is like to work in the heat and humidity.

Currently I am in the Persian gulf working (editted out, best not say) on a job. That means for about the last 2 and half weeks, I have been "on call" 24 hours a day and usually unless equipment breaks so I can get more then an hour sleep at a time. It was sure nice to get 6 hours of sack time in yesterday.

Yeah the heat is bad isn't it. Yesterday it got to 51 C which I gess is like 120F or there-abouts? Since we were on the water it was about 70% humidity. Not fun.


I sure know how I can get a bit cranky when it is like that for a while.

 

[1911Tuner]

A Pistol Named Sue

Dave said:
___________________
The idea that you have to be covered in mud, blood , and beer in a foxhole and work on your 1911 is silly beyond words.
___________________

Where did anybody say THAT? ("you have to be covered in mud, blood , and beer.")

And:
__________________
We had 16 planes with 4 20mm cannons in each one and they had to run 20 hours a day. We had the tools on our belt to do this and it was about 30 lbs of stuff.
________________

And that has exactly what to do with the tools needed to detail-strip a pistol? The guy asked about stripping the gun...not rebuilding it.


And:
_____________________

I have carried a 1/2 90 for over 50 years and have yet had to work on one away from a bench or some kind of indoor area.
_____________________

That may be 'cause ya never dragged one through the mud and the paddies and crawled into a shell hole fulla monsoon-supplied pennies from heaven...in the tropics. Sometimes ya GOTTA take'em apart without the benefit of a bench and a 100-watt light and a drawer fulla tools and get it back together in a hurry...That's why John Moses designed the gun to use its own parts to do the job. His pistol was eventually gonna wind up in the trenches...which was the SOP for the day.

But..you're correct in that you don't have to be covered in mud, blood. beer,
and Bovine Butter to take one apart...but it's nice to be able to just in case
you and the gun ARE covered in mud and blood, etc.

 

[Old Fuff]

As for myself, I would NEVER try to disassemble a 1911 style pistol unless I had at least $10,000.00 worth of "hand tools" and a shop facility available. What if I had to take out one of those full-length recoil spring guide rods??

 

[Bill Z]

Well Tuner, I'll buy him his first AR firing pin when he goes paddy walking, but until them for about 30.00 he can get the proper tools on his own.
Where did it say in his post that he was going to have to detail strip it with what he could carry in the paddy?

Once again, these field expedient repair methods with firing pins and such are nice to know for internet Rambo's, but are still not the right way to do things. Get the right tool for the right job and save yourself a lot of grief.

Fluff, no where was it said you need all of that, but in your case, maybe you do, sounds like you can use all the help you can get.

 

[1911Tuner]

Proper Tools

I'll buy him his first AR firing pin when he goes paddy walking, but until them for about 30.00 he can get the proper tools on his own.

Proper tools...for a simple detail strip??? Good Lord! The gun can be stripped with its own parts!

 

[Old Fuff]

On a number of occasions short of some bloody battlefield I've found it handy to be able to detail strip the pistol without having any of the "proper" tools handy. So far as taking the ol' .45 apart and putting her back together in a shop, any tools you might need can be purchased at the corner hardware store or even the hardware section at Wally-World for under 20 bucks.

Now, I too have a shop, and there are a lot of specialized tools in it relative to working on various guns. But no way did I blow anything near ten grand for common "hand tools."

Anyway I found the thought of needing anything close to that to work on our favorite pistol to be amusing - hence my jocular post.

As for help, yup - I take any I can get that's useful, but so far as I'm concerned I don't think you have anything to offer that I'd find ... well ...useful.

Incidentally, what exactly makes an AR firing pin unsatisfactory as a bench tool? I've found they work fine for the purpose Tuner suggested. Especially so if the mainspring housing pin is cupped on one end like it's supposed to be.

 

[1911Tuner]

Time Gentlemen!

Before this thing goes to "Hoist Baker", let us remember that the original post was a question about tools needed for a DETAIL STRIP...not about what is needed to build a pistol from scratch. The answer is very simple.
The gun can be stripped with a ten-penny nail if need be. I just suggested the firing pin because the stepped diameters on the pin fit all the holes
that need to be fit by a tool. It'll push'em out...and it'll line everything back up for reassembly. One only needs to try it to see how perfect an EXPEDIENT FIELD ARMORER'S TOOL that it is.

Now if we're talkin' buildin' one from the ground up...Yes. There are several
specialty tools that need to be on the bench. For a simple detail strip, the gun serves as its own tool kit in a pinch. It was designed to go to war, and
it's a poor war design that doesn't allow disassembly without tools.

There! Now we can all be friends again...