20 gauge or 12 gauge?

[shephard19]

I am thinking about purchasing a Remington 870 synthetic 7 round for home defense. The gun shop has a shotgun as I described it in 20 gauge in store, but I could order a twelve gauge through them, but I don't like to wait, and I think I might function significantly better with the lesser recoil of the 20gauge however I am concerned that the 20 gauge may not be as effective as I need it to be in a self defense situation. (though I know it is deadly)

What do you think I should do? I am leaning towards the 20 gauge.

 

[PT1911]

the 20 gauge will do everything you need it to do.. I feel the only noticeable difference in the two comes in hunting applications and even then it is primarily bird hunting that I would more recommend the 12 gauge... that said, I like a 12, one of my favorites is a steven's single shot 12, but I also have a double in 20 gauge and one in 16 (new acquisition.) For home defense, I see no real difference between 12 and 20. Go with what you are most comfortable with... seems like youlike the idea of the lesser recoil in the 20. Personally, I have never noticed a big difference between the two but that is just me. you will be doing well with either choice...

 

[RoostRider]

Either should be effective.... but it sounds like you might be aprehensive about the the 12 ga recoil.... if the 20 ga fits your stature better (or a youth gun), it will likely be a better choice....

 

[Lacomvar]

if ever you have to use a shotgun in a house for defense, seems to me a safer course could be a 20 gauge with bird shot...plenty to stop an intruder, but less muzzle velocity than a 12 that could more easily rip through a plaster board wall where your kids may be sleeping. Shooting anything in a house is a very scary proposition, but understandible if it's a last resort for you and family.

 

[KegCommando]

Popularity may have a downside

12 is prob what you'll hear most, but this ammo craziness has got me thinking about a 20.

In my area, up until about last month, there was zero 12ga ammo available, but 20 was plentiful.

So at some point you may want to justify both.

 

[mfcmb]

Before buying a home defense shotgun I rented a 12 GA at the range and after the first three shots my shoulder hurt so badly I was afraid to fire it again. I knew that, even months later I'd remember the hurt and want to avoid firing it again: not what you want in a self-defense gun.

So I bought a 20 GA and found the recoil to be a non-issue.

#3 buckshot seems to be the largest shot that's widely available for 20 GA, and my understanding is that this is good enough for home defense (see the "box of truth" website for their test of shotgun shells and gauges), so that's what I've got. My understanding also is that birdshot does not penetrate well enough to be good for home defense.

 

[bootless]

Fire a 12 and see if you don't mind the recoil. If you don't mind it get the 12. Nothing against a 20 (They will surely stop a BG), but the 12 has more stopping power. Don't cut corners because you don't want to wait a little longer, especially when it comes to a home defense gun. Would you have the same issue between gauges if they had both guns in stock?

 

[Virginian]

A 12 gauge can do anything a 20 can do, except weigh less and handle as well. A 20 can do everything a 12 can do except throw as much payload downrange on the top end.
Although there is apparently a huge increase in the purchase of shotguns for "home defense", I don't think there have been enough actual uses of shotguns in real world situations to have a database out there of what works best and by how much, relative to loads or gauges. I know I would not feel undergunned with a 20 gauge, or even without an extended magazine, or even with a plugged magazine. Heck, I rely on a little 5 shot .357 Magnum. I think 3 shots from any shotgun would be what I'd call a fight stopper.

 

[jmr40]

Buy the 12. 1 oz of shot at the same velocity recoils the same regardless of the gun it is fired in. Since the 20 guage will be lighter the same loads will actually recoil more. There is a wide range of shotshells and the performance of the 12 and 20 overlap. You can choose ammo carefully and get the 12 to have better performance with less recoil then the 20 because the 12 will be heavier.

The advantage of the 20 is that it is a pound or so lighter and will be easier to carry if you are walking 15-20 miles a day hunting with it. Using high powered loads that come close to 12 guage performance will recoil more, but a lot of hunters don't mind because the trade off's are worth the weight loss in the gun.

The 12 just gives you more options. Buy ammo that gives you 20 guage performance and reduced recoil, or get full power ammo that far surpasses the 20.

 

[JimKirk]

Bass Pro flyer just came in the mail today...Remington 870 Express Jr. 20ga 18-3/4" barrel. It has the LOP(Length of Pull) Kit so you could adjust the LOP to fit you. John Dillinger sawed the stock off some of his guns... ever wondered why? That would make one heck of a House gun! $289.99 after rebate, you may find it cheaper, but give it a look.

Jimmy K

I've seen animals shot with a 20 ga. that kept right on running like nothing had happened. When they were shot with a 12 ga. they stopped dead in their tracks.
Same animal?

 

[Teppo Oni]

you can buy light 12ga loads
12ga ammo is cheaper
the 20ga will work fine but the 12ga has more ammo choices
i paid 200$ for my 12ga REM870 at k-mart 11yrs ago
i would get a pistol for home defense unless you live in a isolated area like a farm
then a semi rifle would be better

 

[Legasat]

At 10 yards (or so), I think both 12Ga and 20Ga are very effective.

However, I'm no expert, but IMHO, unless you are literally face to face with the Bad Guy, birdshot will only make him/her mad.

 

[oneounceload]

While the standard 20 gauge loading of 7/8 ounce at 1200 fps will have less recoil than the standard loading of 1 or 1-1/8 oz in 12 gauge at the same velocity, remember that the 20 gauge gun is generally lighter - and sometimes MUCH lighter - and can actually result in MORE recoil. If the gun does not fit you well, the perceived recoil will also be increased. This is one of the situations where I strongly recommend trying before buying to see what will work better for you. While the 12 has a greater selection in HD ammunition, there are adequate selections for the 20 that will work just fine.

 

[Snarlingiron]

A good friend of mine and I have long wondered why there weren't more offerings of 20 ga HD shotguns. A #3 buckshot moving at x feet per second has the same energy or power, if you will regardless of what guage gun it is sent from. Same for Slugs. So, if an animal was shot with a 20 ga, and then shot with a 12 ga with the same shot size and velocity, the one that ran away didn't run away because the shot came from a 20 ga.

The shotgun, 12 or 20 can be highly effective given the proper ammunition at ranges far beyond 10 yards.

In my area, stores like Bass Pro, Cableas, Academy have 12 and 20 ga shells for exactly the same price. Other gages are higher.

So, for me the choice comes down to who might have to use the weapon. Do you have a wife / girlfriend of small stature? Daughters? The 20 ga is lighter, smaller, and easier to handle than the 12 ga. It can also be equipped with youth stocks to give a shorter LOP.

My son has an older 870 Wingmaster in 20 ga that he keeps loaded with #3 buckshot. This is his choice because he knows it like his tongue knows his teeth and he hits what he shoots with it. He's not under armed.

I have shot lots of different loads from 12s and 20s. I don't find a significant difference in recoil with non gas operated guns.

I can't think of much that can be done with a 12 ga than can't be done with the 20.

Get it. Shoot it. A lot.

 

[tju1973]

Depends-- but the 12ga will put more lead on target-- so it would seem to work better. I have an 870 Express Magnum, and it doesn't bother me-- the wife can shoot it also.

That being said, in keeping with her girly look, I will probably get her a 20ga 870 with the pink laminate for Christmas. I like the 20ga and diversity- plus the lessened recoil-- will make her want to shoot it more.

YMMV...

 

[Willo]

I <3 recoil, so I gots me a 12. And I'm a pretty small dude, 135 lbs.

Just lean into the shot and you'll have no problems.

 

[rockett65]

A properly fitted 12 gauge gun may have less recoil than an unfitted 20 gauge although for HD gun i would not worry about it to much. Just practice practice like other members have said and hopefully it never gets used for what you bought it for.

 

[DKA]

Have both, 12 & 20 like both and both do their job. Either would be fine for HD. Buckshot in #3 are fine and will do the job. I have a Remington Wingmaster in 12 Ga, but the reason that when I was looking for a HD gun, the 12 is what I found.

 

[scottaschultz]

that said, I like a 12, one of my favorites is a steven's single shot 12...

And my favorite is my dear old (and I mean that literally!) Savage 720.

I wish I had known he was looking for a 20ga. I recently sold my Ithaca Model 37. Just wasn't using it. I also sold my Iver Johnson Champion 16ga for $100. I don't think I paid that much for it!

And yes, I agree with those that say a 20ga should do the job quite nicely for you. Let's hope you never find out!

Scott

 

[Loyalist Dave]

How big a room do you think you'll have to use it in? I mean velocities of the shells are a little faster in a 20 in some loadings. So in a SD situation, at normal indoor house ranges, I doubt the BG will know the difference between 18 pellets of Federal 20 ga #2 buck at 1175 fps vs. 15 pellets of 00 buck from a Federal 12 gauge at 1210 fps. (The 12 ga is $1 MORE expensive - Sportsman's Guide) In the rifled slug category, the 3/4 ounce 20 gauge gives you 1865 muzzle energy, and the 12 gauge 1 ounce at the same velocity gives you 2520. (Ammo cost was the same.) Yes the 12 gauge gives around 640 more pounds of energy..., inside a house at 15 yards or less, not really a factor, so unless you are shooting in a room that's longer than 45 feet, not an issue.

With birdshot, you get a mere 1/4 ounce more in some loadings for the 12 over the 20, the same velocity, and the same price. Again, at ranges inside your house..., will the badguy really notice?

Going for game, sure the 12 is better against geese. In your house I think 20 is plenty, AND if you are in a state like mine, it would be better for them to look at you defending yourself with a light "bird gun" than to be using a nasty, "police cannon".



LD

 

[JimKirk]

Walt
I don't think anyone was saying that you're not telling the truth. What I believe they were saying is.... yes there is a difference between the 20ga load and the 12 ga load BUT at 2 ft. there would be hardly any noticible difference. Either gage would act just like a slug. Yes a 12ga will throw 1-1/2 oz of #4 at ducks a little faster than 20 will throw 1-1/4 oz of #4. Yes the 12 will throw a 1 oz slug vers. the 20 7/8 oz, yes the 12 will throw 00 buck vers. the 20's #3 buck. So yes there are differences, but in the real world its just not that much. If I had a rabid man breaking down my door ... yes I would rather have a 12ga, but I would not feel under gunned short handy 20 ga either!
Kinda like comparing a 308 to a 30/06!

Jimmy K

 

[leadcounsel]

Please STOP spreading bad advice - BIRDSHOT IS NOT FOR HOME DEFENSE, EVER! IT'S FOR BIRDS! It lacks penetration, density, and range. Use heavy shot or slugs.

 

[WTBguns10kOK]

Go with the 20. The fact you're even considering the recoil issue is a giveaway that it will work better for you. And you'll be able to have more fun shooting clays longer if you like to do that. Like has been said, you don't need a 12 for defense, deer or much of anything except birds, if you so choose. The same guys who buy $50k Fords and Dodge Rams for looks "need" a 12.

 

[PT1911]

so you shot a fox with a 20 gauge at point blank range three times... then finished it off with the 12 gauge.... I see no proof in your statement that the 12 was more effective... only that it was an unlucky fox... who is to say it wouldnt have taken 3 or 4 shots from the 12 if it hadnt already been taken down by the 20?

similar to shooting a deer with a 30-30 and having to slit its throat to finish it off.. does that mean a knife is better to hunt with than a 30-30... I think not.

 

[Guillermo]

Shot placement is critical.

More is better.

As Nathen Bedford Forrest would say were he here "Bring the mostest that you can shoot the bestest."