20 gauge vs. 12 gauge and Semi vs. Pump for 3 gun

[Pizzapinochle]

I've been doing as much googling and reading as possible, but i want to confirm my findings on using each gauge and action for 3 gun competition.

Semi vs. pump

- semi is better, faster shots and reduced recoil
- semi costs more and takes more maintenance/cleaning to keep running
- you can keep up with a pump, reloading speed and accuracy will mean more than the tenths of a second difference between semi and pump

12 vs. 20

- 20 has reduced recoil, faster follow ups on target
- 20 is a bit lighter to sling around
- 12 throws more lead, but as long as you are accurate the difference is not significant

Is that an accurate summary?

I am trying to pick my gun, looking at a 20 gauge 870 express magnum at the moment. $250 at the lgs, as a terrible rattle can paint job i would need to redo, but pretty cheap. Would need to talk the price down a bit.

 

[rcmodel]

I doubt you can find even one seriously serious 3-gun competitor shooting a 20ga shotgun.

They kick as hard or harder because the guns are usually much lighter.

And practice & match ammo costs more.

Get a 12ga.

You will also find all kinds of trick 3-gun aftermarket parts you will need, sooner or later, made in 12ga, but not in 20ga.

rc

 

[joe88xj]

What the previous poster said. I use a 12 gauge 22" barrel 1100 semi

 

[Pizzapinochle]

I doubt you can find even one seriously serious 3-gun competitor shooting a 20ga shotgun.

They kick as hard or harder because the guns are usually much lighter.

And practice & match ammo costs more.

Get a 12ga.

You will also find all kinds of trick 3-gun aftermarket parts you will need, sooner or later, made in 12ga, but not in 20ga.

rc

I probably will not be a "serious" 3-gun competitor for a LONG time, if ever, but the advice still applies. If that is what the best are using, that is what I should use, so that seems to answer the 12 vs. 20 argument.

For semi vs. pump: Are there any cheaper semis that are reliable/and effective for 3-gun? I would be fine with an older one, I don't mind (and sometimes enjoy) having the ugliest gun at the shoot, but it needs to be functional.

If not, I'll just find a 12 gauge 870. I have an extra wingmaster in my safe, but it has a 26 inch fixed-modified barrel and I don't think I want to subject that to the handling of 3-gun... the wood is too pretty! I guess I could buy a plastic stock for it, but it seems a shame to take such a nice gun and downgrade it like that.

 

[mfcmb]

My Mossberg 20 ga has far less felt recoil than any 12 ga I've shot...

 

[ToysRUs]

I recommend the Stoeger M3000 in 24" & 12 Ga.
You can probably find the gun for around $450-470
It is a quality Benelli copy and is running well for a number of us 3 gunners.
Go to this thread all about the gun.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=173219&page=1
You will also need a few accessories to make it competitive.
You'll need an ext mag tube at the minimum. (so the gun will hold the required 9 shells) I suggest Nordic Components.
http://nordiccomp.com/retail/shop/product-category/shotgun/
Or you can get all the parts, Nordic Mag tube kit, low friction follower, barrel clamp, bolt handle, ext lifter, Large bolt release, trigger mods. From Tom at MOA Precision.
http://www.moaprecisionllc.com/

Read all 34 pages of the thread and you will see it all.
I did my own open mag well too.

 

[oneounceload]

semi costs more and takes more maintenance/cleaning to keep running

Costs more,(on average from same maker) yes; more maintenance - not really

20 has reduced recoil, faster follow ups on target

Not necessarily, if the 20 is lighter, the recoil can actually be MORE.

Both can be loaded down to 3/4oz reloads with no degree of difficulty if recoil is an issue.

 

[jmorris]

I have won a number of matches using a 20 ga semi auto (my wife's shotgun). Your rifle will make a bigger difference than your shotgun at most matches, as long as you can hit larue sized targets with a slug @ 100 and the gun runs. I have never used any of my pump guns in a 3 gun match though.

 

[IndianaBoy]

The Stoeger 3000 is a good suggestion. Another good option is a used Winchester SX2. They can be had very cheaply and are an excellent shotgun.



I have heard lots of people opine that a good shooter can shoot a pump as fast as an auto. Hogwash. A good shooter can shoot a pump faster than a poor shooter can shoot an auto. Between 2 equal shooters the guy with the auto will win. The key with the shotgun, especially on bigger stages, is to make every shot count. Loading on the clock eats time. Become proficient with loading techniques.


Get a decent auto. Do your homework and don't be afraid to buy used.

12 gauge over 20, without a doubt.

Benelli, FN/Winchester, Remington (versamax, not the 1100), Stoeger, Beretta, Browning (The new auto 5), are all solid options. You don't need to spend absurd amounts of money to win but reliability is important.

 

[tuj]

I don't shoot 3-gun, but what about the Remington 1100 family? There are lots of them around used, they are reliable, parts are plentiful, and it's soft to shoot relative to a pump.

 

[lmccrock]

12 gauge. Only have seen a couple 20 gauge, and those were petite women, but even teen girls shoot a 12 gauge these days. If you are recoil-shy, use reduced loads and be sure you can change chokes to adjust.

I don't shoot 3-gun, but what about the Remington 1100 family? There are lots of them around used, they are reliable, parts are plentiful, and it's soft to shoot relative to a pump.

I have been shooting an 1100 in 3gun for 10 years now, and it has broken a fair number of parts and had a death jamb every so often (shell caught between the lifter and the gate, no easy way to fix when the clock is running). 3gun transitions (from one gun to another on the clock) mean a long gun will go in or out of a barrel or box and that is wear and tear that most guns are not designed for. Anyway, an 1100 would not be my first choice in a semiauto. If I were looking for a budget semiauto now, probably a Mossberg 930JM.

Heard about the Stoeger, have not seen one AFAIK.

 

[IndianaBoy]

I don't shoot 3-gun, but what about the Remington 1100 family? There are lots of them around used, they are reliable, parts are plentiful, and it's soft to shoot relative to a pump.

They are probably terrific hunting shotguns, but when exposed to the round count of 3-gun, they regularly and predictably fail catastrophically.

Every time I have seen a shotgun completely shutdown and end a stage for a shooter, it was an 1100.

I would shoot almost any pump, especially a Benelli Nova or Supernova before an 1100.

 

[jmorris]

I have two different 1100's that I have used in 3-gun matches and the only problem I have ever had was a sight getting knocked off "barreling" one of them.

I have seen lots of rifles, shotguns and pistols choke on people at matches, many of them were no fault of the design of the firearm as it came from the factory.

The first rule of any firearm used in gun games is that they have to run, nothing else matters until you have reached that goal.

What specific matches do you intend to shoot? The rules are different from one to another.

 

[Pizzapinochle]

What specific matches do you intend to shoot? The rules are different from one to another.

Realizing this is more and more true.

I think I am going to find a used pump 12 gauge that I can use and then once I have shot a few matches figure out what I REALLY want. I don't really want to use my 30 inch barreled wingmaster for 3-gun, so I need to find SOMETHING different.

I have a line on a beat up old wingmaster for under $225, I'll slap an extended mag tube on it and should be good to go for the "tryout" phase at least and if I clean it up can probably resell for the same amount once I move on.

 

[justice06rr]

If you don't plan to be a serious competitor and just want to do 3gun for training/fun, then a 12ga pump shotgun should be fine.

Semi's are more expensive so if you are on a budget it will be hard to find a cheap semiauto shotgun. Each 3gun event/match may also be different and each stage may require different ammo (from birdshot to slugs). The ones I went to let us shoot birdshot which has a moderate recoil.

 

[Hoser]

Avoid 20 gauge if you can and also avoid the 1100/11-87. They are a very high maint shotgun.

 

[Pizzapinochle]

You know, the contrarian in me really actually wants to show up with my .410 bolt action. Just to see what happens.

Thanks for all the good advice. I bought a wingmaster with a 26 inch modified barrel and an 18 inch cylinder bore barrel. Not ideal, but good enought get started i think.

 

[Hunterdad]

I set up a CZ712 Utility for 3-gun and it's running great for me.

 

[waktasz]

You know, the contrarian in me really actually wants to show up with my .410 bolt action. Just to see what happens.

Thanks for all the good advice. I bought a wingmaster with a 26 inch modified barrel and an 18 inch cylinder bore barrel. Not ideal, but good enought get started i think.

At the matches around here you'd be very sad when you couldn't knock the steel down on half the stages.