200 yards, .308.....5/8" group!

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redneck what type of glass you using?

Im thinking of going with a similar set up, pretty much identical with the addition of magazine, and by the way great groups
 
If we are going to call people out for being "certain types of hats" lets read this thread:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218&page=1

I don't know if you made any scope adjustments in there, and if so it would totally change how this worked out but I superimposed all the targets as best I could without having CS2 in front of me and then ran the one target with all shots through OnTarget and got this:
308imposed.jpg


Even if my image editing skills are a little off and you give a fudge of half inch (though I don't think I'm that far off) it still is pushing over 2 MOA.

This is why people say a 3 shot group isn't telling the full story. Again if the scope was adjusted or a different load used the groups can't be imposed but if they are 4 groups. Its also why 30 shot groups are STATISTICALLY the cut off as to what you can expect from a setup. I shoot a bit of rimfire and shoot for score instead of group size. I'll get a handful of Xs as well as a handful of 7s or 8s. I can run 3Xs in a row and if shot as one group would look very impressive. When taken with the rest of the shots everything comes into perspective and the setup doesn't look so amazing.
 
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Yeah, that's sub-MOA.

But as a previous poster suggested, a 3-shot "group" merely suggests a consistent POA (or not), while 5-shots is the minimum number needed for establishing a rifle's baseline accuracy (or lack thereof if the shooter isn't the cause :scrutiny: ).

Thus we have:

A 5-shot "group" from 200 yards, using Federal GMM ammo, into a two inch black square ...
PR1-4.jpg

... shot with:

my .308 Rem 700, 24" tube, suppressed w/ an OPS 3rd model can ...
PR-1v2.jpg

Didn't hear a thing, ... 'cept for all the jaws hitting the ground afterward. ;) :D

:cool:
 
Even if its 2.3 MOA at 200 yards, or 1.15 at 100 yards, still pretty impressive considering I've only been shooting this rifle for a month! I have no doubts about the inherent accuracy of the 700 tactical.

I'll do (5) 5 shot groups next weekend, you want 25 rounds, you'll get 25 rounds. (sticks tongue out).
 
Redneck with a 40, well done for showing your complete target. I can only speak for myself but you've definitely got my respect for doing that. This forum would be a lot better off and we'd all learn a lot more if we all did that. I think it would encourage new shooters if they saw the whole picture rather than intimidate them with a few (and atypical) best groups.

I spend a lot of time working up loads using the OCW method and shoot fairly regularly at 200, 300 and 600 yards ... both .308 and .300 Win Mag. Based on my experience, I'd say that you don't have an OCW load assuming that your technique is sound. A bad load (that you think is a good load) may lead to a lot of frustration so I would suggest that you read about the OCW method if you haven't already done so.

Do you take notes as you shoot each round? Before you even look through the spotting scope or before you walk down to check your target, record where you were aiming when you pulled the trigger and where you "think" the bullet hit the target ... it can REALLY help in load development.

Here's a typical log sheet that high power service rifle competitors use. I look forward to seeing your five 5-shot targets next week.

200y_slow_fire.jpg


:)
 
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kangspec, absolutely, 180's are no problem and they have the best B.C's in match bullets.

I also need to clarify, group #1 was shot using factory prvi partizan 168 gr match ammo, my "fouler group. #2,3 and 4 are my handloads.
 
Total all these up and it comes to 7.9 inches, divided by 4 = 1.97 MOA at 200 yards, or .98 MOA at 100 yards
No, it is [roughly] .98MOA at 100yds, 200yds, or 1k yds as long as the rifle can shoot that far. MOA is not a measurement of length, it is the measure of angle, so the more distance the more deviation from POA at the same angle. Not ragging on you, it just seems to be a common misconception and I wanted to clear it up. :)
 
I read this webpage on OCW load development, while interesting and informative, I'm not interested in this much tedious work. I just want a good 3/4 to 1 MOA load. He show's 46 grains of Varget being a good "universal load", although this is a max load, I'm not going there. I may give 45 grains a try.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-load-recipes/4533485759

Maybe I'll back down to 43.5 grains Varget and shoot 3 shot groups in .2 grain increments, see which one gives the best result. I'd like to stay one grain off the max, which would be 45 grains. I'm not interested in the lower end of the charge spectrum, as the velocity will suck, especially from a 20" barrel.

Maverick, thanks for clearing that up.
 
Yeah ya'll just keep shooting 3 shot groups. Odd how NONE of you bother to shoot in the postal matches though. I guess you didn't have time.
 
Odd how NONE of you bother to shoot in the postal matches though.
How do ya know?
Loose your attitude and support your fellow Gun owner
Agreed, I don't know if jerkface meant it joking or not; but how in the heck are you supposed to learn...by showing up to a NRA match? Furthermore, I move that we suspend posting for anyone that has not won a nationally recognized target shooting match; that'll show em'.
 
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Notice his screen name. Not the first comment of this kind from him.....


You just keep on shooting and learning at your pace Redneck with a .40....Yep, if everyone showed their whole days work, it would clear up a lot and not intimidate folks new to this.

Would it make sense for David Tubbs to crack on my shooting? Nope, and he never would, even though he could shoot rings around most everybody for a very long time. :)
 
All this worry about how many shots are needed to determine a rifle's quality ignore the particular purpose of the rifle.

For a hunter: Two factors. First, does the first shot from a cold barrel always go to the same point of aim, today, as it did last week or last month? In the field, you don't get test shots and do-overs. Next, since I've rarely seen a hit after several misses, I have believed for many decades that three shot groups provide all the information that is needed for a hunting situation.

Target competition is a whole 'nother game. The number of required shots in a course of fire determine how many shots are needed in testing for group size. What good is a five-shot group if the course of fire is for ten shots?

After almost sixty years of shooting centerfire, my personal opinion is that after five shots, the shooter's ability at consistent hold/aim/press is being tested as much as is the rifle.

If the shooting is for testing and not in the field or in a competition match, the purpose is to gain useful information. If a three-shot group provides the needed information, more shots don't mean anything. If one wants to compare his five-shot groups with somebody elses, three shots obviously won't do it. Same for competition: The number of shots for an appropriate determination of accuracy must be the same as the required course of fire.

Opinions are fine, but think through the reasons.

Moderating hat on: Any more name-calling or snark and I'm gonna ban without warning. I'm thoroughly fed up with sarcasm in lieu of courtesy and politeness in what's supposed to be rational discussion among adults.

Art
 
One last question for the experienced shooter's here. During my string of 25 shots next weekend, should I bore-snake the bore after 15 rounds, or just shoot the whole 25? Will the barrel fouling toward the end skew my results?

I'm gonna give 44 grains of Varget another try, but that is in the "scatter zone", then I'll up it to 44.3, if that doesn't work, 44.5. I'd like to find a good load between 44 and 45 grains.
 
It depends on your barrel. Only your results will tell how many rounds can be shot before the barrel needs cleaned. Well made barrels tend to get more shots than inexpensive barrels but it all depends on the inside of your barrel.
 
When I was shooting 168gr SMKs, 43gr varget was my sweet spot, at 2650fps. Pulling a snake can't hurt, but I never do, after 30rds, my gun still shoots good. Don't forget the crony:)
According to Seirra, 43.5 is a max load. I realize Hodgdon claims you can go higher, but I saw pressure signs at 44.4gr Load safe!!
http://www.6mmbr.citymaker.com/f/Sierra308Win.pdf
 
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JD, you must be shooting a 26" barrel, I'll never see that velocity out of my 20" tube. The load I've been shooting at 44 grains is fine, pressure wise. I'll definitely take the chrony, measure all 25 of those bad boys.:)
 
JDGray said:
According to Seirra, 43.5 is a max load. I realize Hodgdon claims you can go higher, but I saw pressure signs at 44.4gr Load safe!!

WOW!! Lyman has 45.7gr of Varget (compressed) as the max (24", 1:10 twist barrel)!! No wonder folks get confused.

Redneck, I wouldn't clean the barrel during a 30-shot string. As for your loads, the minimum load "step" that makes sense to me is 0.3gr. Most measuring systems only guarantee +/- 0.1gr so if you try to produce loads with 0.2gr increments you may end up with plenty of overlap. Just my opinion and definitely not scientifically proven. :)

:)
 
Hodgdon runs Varget up to 46 grains, but I'm not going beyond 45. By the way, I'm ready to rock this string out next weekend, very excited.:)
 
it all depends on the inside of your barrel.
The method of machining rifling makes the biggest difference. The method of polishing, heat treatment, et cetera also makes a difference.
 
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