.308 at 200 yards

[JDGray]

Good shooting, Redneck! I just shot my best 5 shot group a few days ago, at 100yrds. I'm working up some Varget loads on this target. My buddy sitting next to me, was spotting my shots, but he kept jerking the picnic table, that called flier was won of them moments

 

[Pat4x4]

good job guys.. there is a x-mark pro trigger up on calgun.net for $50 if anyone is looking to upgrade their gun.. I couple turns of the allen wrench and you have a sub 2 lb clean breaking trigger.. Just a FYI

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=165613

 

[JDGray]

good job guys.. there is a x-mark pro trigger up on calgun.net for $50 if anyone is looking to upgrade their gun.. I couple turns of the allen wrench and you have a sub 2 lb clean breaking trigger.. Just a FYI

Thats one reason I like my Savages, the accutriggers are all about 1.5#, and supprise you everytime. Would love to pull the trigger on their target action, 6oz-1.5#

 

[Pat4x4]

I own both a savage with the accutrigger and this.. They both are nice.. I think I slightly prefer the x-mark though.. the lack of the fancy trigger dohicky hanging off is nice.. Both work awsome though..

 

[R.W.Dale]

many of us savage fans are simply removing the Glock blade from the accu trigger. Leaving us with a nice normal and well adjusted trigger with no Glock funkiness

 

[jbech123]

But I'm sick and tired of all the tall tales where someone shoots ONE sub whatever 3 shot group and then proclaims from then on out how their rifle is a sub MOA performer "all day long"
But I'm sick and tired of all the tall tales where someone shoots ONE sub whatever 3 shot group and then proclaims from then on out how their rifle is a sub MOA performer "all day long"

Certainly that happens, but I see more of "my rifle will shoot xxx when I do my part". Which is probably true in many cases. I have remington 5R that has shot enough groups in the .4's(both 3 and 5 shot groups) that I can say the rifle is a sub half moa rifle. The fact that I can't always do it is beside the point. On a calm day, I can do it more than half the time. And when I can't it is my fault. Wind starts kicking up even above 5 mph, forget it I'm happy with .75 and proportionally worse as the wind increases.
And as far as lucking into groups, that happens once in a while I suppose, but I have a ruger hunting rifle, and it has never lucked into a half moa group, even for 3 shots. Heck I'm thrilled if it shoots 1.5 moa.

 

[JDGray]

I'm pretty much a 10-shot group man myself.

Hey, W.E.G.,

Were ya shooting blindfolded, or just way out there?

 

[helz_mcfugly]

but I have a ruger hunting rifle, and it has never lucked into a half moa group, even for 3 shots. Heck I'm thrilled if it shoots 1.5 moa.

and its a .308? does it have a bad barrel?

 

[jbech123]

and its a .308? does it have a bad barrel?

No it's a 7mag, the one with the "boat paddle" type stock. These were not known for incredible accuracy. Honestly, it is a hunting rifle that gets abused and 1.5 moa is plenty accurate to kill deer and elk to 400 yards. I'm not saying anything bad about rugers, this is just the accuracy I get out of this one, which for a hunting rifle with a pencil barrel is acceptable to me. I could probably get it bedded or change the stock out, but honestly I've shot it at 18 game animals and killed 17 of them on the first shot. The one I missed was not due to the inaccuracy of the rifle.

 

[jbech123]

I'm pretty much a 10-shot group man myself.

Hopefully that group was shot at 1K or more

 

[benzy2]

From a stats point of view 30 shots would be what you want to shoot. From what I recall 30 shots was the point where you had enough data to know what the rifle would do. You need the extreme spread from point of aim so if you shoot 10 3 shot groups all ten groups need to be overlapped with a constant point of aim to show what the 30 round group would look like.

Thats stats though. In real life I try to shoot at least 5 if not 10. If it means I wait all day for a good shot I would rather put 5 on target. 3 shot groups are ok but I belong to the group that more is better.

That said nice group. 3 shots or 5 its still a nice group.

 

[MCMXI]

Certainly that happens, but I see more of "my rifle will shoot xxx when I do my part". Which is probably true in many cases. I have remington 5R that has shot enough groups in the .4's(both 3 and 5 shot groups) that I can say the rifle is a sub half moa rifle.

I frequently shoot sub 0.5 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yards (prone with a bipod but no rear rest) with my .308 Win, .300 Win Mag and AR15 but I don't kid myself that I'm a sub MOA shooter at 400, 500, 600, 800 or 1000 yards!! At those distances, shooter skill (and luck) really come into play and at this point I've not had sufficient amounts of either. A sub MOA rifle at 100 yards has the POTENTIAL to be sub MOA at 600 yards but that's about it. The other issue is that's it's one thing to take 20 minutes to shoot five rounds at a target 100 or 200 yards away not caring where the group is on the target, but now shoot 20 rounds in 20 minutes at 600 yards (in reality 10 minutes given the time to lower the target, patch and score and raise the target) and get them all in the 0.5 MOA X ring or even the 1 MOA 10 ring for that matter. I think every shooter should try that for a reality check.

How about this for another reality check ... on Top Sniper featuring the 2008 International Top Sniper Competition, only one team out of more than 30 teams was able to range and hit a "man-sized" target at 700m within 1 minute. This is a spotter/shooter team with some of the best teams in the world competing. Folks that have a lot more experience/skill than 99.9% of us on this board. Every rifle used in the competition was a sub MOA rifle!!

I will honestly say that none of the three rifles that I use for competitive shooting limit my ability to shoot 200-20X at 600 yards ... I'M the limiting factor and I bet that's true for most $500 and up rifles with good reloads particularly if the loads are developed using a procedure similar to the OCW method.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I just wanted to see what the rifle was capable of, and I've found it, I'm very pleased. My hold on my first three groups was not good, plus the wind was gusty. On my fourth, the wind calmed down and I concentrated hard. I belive that I can consistently shoot 2" at 200 yards, maybe even a little better. The rifle will certainly do it, its just up to me. I've also found the sweet spot with H-4895, I'm rollin' with it.

 

[DAdams]

WEG

That had to be a Mini 14 at 100 yards?

I was told that there are only 50 700 SPS tacticals made per year in .308.
This was a gunshop counter guy who was brought to me as the store shift expert.
He predicated that comment by asking me how many rifles I thought Remington manufactured per year? I have no freaking idea actually. I didn't really give a rats @ss, I was looking for an SPS Tactical in .308 and he didn't have one. Drat. They did have on the shelf a nice 700 SS 5-R....at full retail. I may do that yet to eliminate all odds except me from the factoral.

 

[Pat4x4]

I dont know about that.. you can find that many sps tacticals right now on gunbroker in .308 I bet

He must have been talking about another model

 

[TRGRHPY]

Am I the only one who keeps a running average of my 3 and 5 shot groups? I combine all of them together, and average the new ones in when I shoot a new group(s). Right now, my rifle and I, are shooting .74 moa at 200 yds. Since I'm the one shooting it, it doesn't matter what someone else is capable of doing with it, or "what the gun is capable of".

By the way, nice group. What range do you use?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

That had to be a Mini 14 at 100 yards?

I think you mean 25 yards.

Hey, I guarantee you I can shoot a 1-hole group at 200 yards, in two different ways: Either with 1 shot, or with 1,000 shots, like taking out the red star with a BB gun at the carnival midway game. But between 2 and 999, most of the way, it won't be a one hole group.

 

[Funderb]

WEG, that must be 1000yds with irons, right?!

 

[jbech123]

A sub MOA rifle at 100 yards has the POTENTIAL to be sub MOA at 600 yards but that's about it.

The rifle itself probably does have the ability, the shooter, and likely their inability to read wind, is likely the limiting factor.

 

[jbech123]

Since I'm the one shooting it, it doesn't matter what someone else is capable of doing with it, or "what the gun is capable of".

Interesting perspective. I like to know what the rifle is capable of, so then I can work on my actual shooting and not worry about the rifle. I mean if the gun itself will only do 1.5 moa out of a machine rest, it seems like trying to shoot a 3 inch group at 300 yards would be an exercise in futility.

 

[skinewmexico]

Most gun manufactures base there 1 moa warrenty on three rounds at 100 ys.

And that's important because.............it's easier to sell rifles with a 1 MOA warranty that way? Geez, could we set the bar any lower?

 

[jbech123]

it's easier to sell rifles with a 1 MOA warranty that way? Geez, could we set the bar any lower?

Contrary to all people's complaining, 1moa for a factory mass produced rifle costing < $600 is pretty damn impressive. All nostalgia aside, how many pre 64 winchesters rolled off the line in the 50's and 60's and were capable of sub-moa out of the box? I will bet percentage wise less were capable of that than the factory rifle coming from savage, remington, weatherby, tikka etc...today. And adjusted for inflation, those model 70's cost more than $600 back then.

 

[benzy2]

Ammo has come a long way as well. I would love to do a now and then test with an unshot example from the 50's or 60's using today's ammo. Using a worn out pre 64 or even groups shot in the 50's really isn't a direct comparison to shooting today's match bullets or even match factory loads.

 

[Art Eatman]

Articles in the American Rifleman back in the 1940s and 1950s (yes, I've read all of them, back when I was a kid) commonly viewed 1.5 MOA as quite good for deer hunting. Few Model 70s did any better, right out of the box.

My father's 1952 vintage Model 70 in .220 Swift shoots about 3/4 MOA for five shots. So did my post-64 Model 70 in .264 Win Mag. Accuracy improvements come from better machine tools for barrel-making.

You can shoot a three-shot group fairly rapidly without getting dispersion from heat. For hunting, if you need more than three shots you're probably out of luck, anyway. Why bother with five-shot groups? No useful information. Thus a one-MOA three-shot guarantee is quite adequate for a hunting rifle. Target or competition rifles? Different deal.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I'd pay money to see someone shoot four sub 2" groups at 200 yards. I got one out of four, good enough for me. For the record, my other three were running about 2.5" at 200 yds. Once I settled down and steadied it up good, I got 1.25".