.22 Hornet

[Makai16]

Hey Guys

Im new to THR and was hoping somebody/some people could help with a bullet seating issue for my cz 527 22 hornet lux

so currently im loading .22hornet using hornady 45gr HP/BEE projectiles into a case trimmed at 1.393. im having somewhat of a problem determining seating depth. im using the age old method of seating a projectile, colouring with a sharpie, loading it and closing the bolt. progressively working down in .005 increments till I lose indication of rifling.

I still have rifling marks all the way around the ogive at 1.675 COL (please bear in mind this projectile is stubby and short being a HP) when I take the next step to seat down to 1.670 and then onto 1.665 I have indication of rifling but only on oneside, two rifling grooves to be exact.

According to SAAMI specs minimum COL is 1.660 for .22 hornet and
According to most, optimal seating depth is .010-.020 off the rifling.

my first question is has anyone had a similar experience with rifling indicating on a bullet like mine?

my second question is should I consider my bullet touching the rifling at 1.675 where it contacts all rifling grooves or 1.665 where only two grooves are indicating on the projectile

and lastly if I was to take the 1.665 as a my bullet touching the rifling would it be safe to go beyond the SAAMI spec of COL 1.660 and seat the bullet 0.010-0.020 beyond the 1.665 measurement. please bear in mind this is a short stubby projectile.

sorry to hit you guys with this arse about question:banghead:

kind Regards

 

[philip brousseau]

it could be that the chamber is out of line with the bore or the loaded ammunition is crooked. i have a set of dies that bends the cases when the expander button is pulled out of the neck. hornet cases are thin. a sinclair nk sizer fixed that problem. if you can check bullet run out of your loaded rounds. i would not be concerned with the saami specs. you can use the length at which all the lands touch the bullet and go from there. it does not matter if it is shorter than sammi minimum. you just have to shoot and see what the gun likes. i have an a-bolt hornet, magazine limits most bullets from getting to the lands and i shoot stubby sierra 45gr.hornet bullets and it is very accurate. let us know how it shoots.

 

[Scooter22]

I see you didn't get many replies. Heres some info I followed on my Ruger 77/22 Hornet that made a huge difference on accuracy and case life. I think similar info is here on THR but I had this linked. Look at the links on Post #17. Good luck

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315932&highlight=.22+Hornet

 

[GooseGestapo]

I've used the Hornady Bee in the Hornet. I liked it. It does require seating a little deeper.
Don't bother with crimping.
Yes, you MUST chamfer the case mouths, and I have a Lyman M-die I use to flare case mouths for loading cast bullets. Lee makes a similar Universal expander die that will help.
If you expand/flare the case mouths, you will need to lightly crimp to remove flare.

It is a demanding challenge cartridge to reload, but I do love the little Hornet!

 

[alsaqr]

According to SAAMI specs minimum COL is 1.660 for .22 hornet and
According to most, optimal seating depth is .010-.020 off the rifling.

Your European made CZ 527 does not have a SAAMI spec chamber. It has a C.I.P chamber. The C.I.P chamber is tighter.

 

[SwaneeSR]

I see you didn't get many replies. Heres some info I followed on my Ruger 77/22 Hornet that made a huge difference on accuracy and case life. I think similar info is here on THR but I had this linked. Look at the links on Post #17. Good luck



http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315932&highlight=.22+Hornet

Thanks for the link. This is an interesting caliber and a challenge to handload. I started a while back looking for a rifle like a hornet.

Swanee

 

[Wis-Harpo]

.22 Horney

I had a .22 Hornet years ago. It was in the Ruger #3 single shot. I tried and tried to get under 1" groups, but could only get a minimum of 1 1/4 ". I sold it right when Ruger discontinued making them and the price of used ones went up. Would have been a fun cartridge if it would have shot better.

At the same time I had the Ruger Hornet , I had a Remington Model 788 in 243. I got sub 1" groups with an old Weaver 2 1/2 power post and crosshair all day.

 

[Makai16]

Thanks for the insight fellas, I've since changed projectiles, had no luck with the projectile with various seating depths. The bullet has a very poor ballistic coefficient which I'm attributing to the lack of accuracy. The rifle shoots sub Moa at 100 yds with Winchester 45gr sp I'm wanting to replicate this or better with hand loads.

Ive just loaded a couple of cartridges with hornady 45 gr sp which has a really high bc for a hornet projectile. But it seems this bullets ogive is miles away from the lands due to it being tapered so long to the tip of the bullet and can't be seated any shallower due to the magazine not being able to accomodate a Longer cartridge.



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[acechanley]

I have Winchester mdl 43 use 13gr lil gun, small pistol primer. Hornaday 40 gr ballistic tip and get sub moa @ 100 yd. unfortunately they need to be hand loaded as they are to long for the mag. Also tried brass Barnes 40 grain hp with good results. Both loads are running around 2950 to 3050fps. Case life is bad at as I get 3-4 reloads before they fail. CampOnly hp's I use are factory loads. Usually, get 2600- 2650 outta these on a good day also require more Kentucky windage!
Finicky round, I hear that if you go "k" with these case life doubles. Problem is you either rent the reamer or buy it for your smith, by the time your done you have a couple hundred in to it...
With mine I used empty case with bullet and loaded it, then set it back 1 or 2 100ths ... Pretty easy.
Shooting factory hp loads that fit into mag I'm more than sub moa with my gun as it doesn't shoot hp the short ogive hp's.
Gotta say the brass Barnes hp's are lasers and yield impressive wounds when used for hunting .
Ace




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[Walkalong]

Some folks swear by a case full of Lil Gun and a Hornady 35 Gr V-Max, but mine liked the 40 Gr V-Max over 1680.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I prefer to use H110/Win296 for bullets lighter than 40gr. With 40-50gr I like Lil'Gun, and 1680 with 55gr.

To duplicate the Winchester, you can try Grafs, Wideners, or Midsouth Shooters Supply as they occasionally carry the Winchester bullets. However, I've found the Sierra bullets to be vastly more accurate.
Try the Sierra 45gr SemiPoint over either 10.0gr H110, or 12.5gr Lil'Gun. Another good powder is H4227, but I've never used it much.

B.C. Only affects trajectory and wind drift at distance. Your rifle or loading technique didn't agree with the bullet if accuracy was bad.
My favorite go-to bullet for the Hornet is the Sierra 40gr Varminter HP. I seat it to max oal to fit my magazine (1.78"), and it gets 3,000fps from my 24"bbl Ruger M77/22H KBZ over 12.5gr Lil'Gun and small pistol primer (WSP).(stainless laminated stock). It's about moa, though it took a LOT to get it there.
Also, trim brass to 1.495", and chamfer case mouth to prevent neck collapse during bullet seating.

Added: If your barrel has a 1/16" twist, you won't get any kind of accuracy from bullets heavier than 50gr. I'm betting that your CZ has a 1/16" OR SLOWER twist.

I've got a CZ527 American in .222Rem. that has a barrel marked 1/14". However, by actual measurement, it's just under 1/17" !!!
It keyholes 50gr Hornady Vmax, but shoots bug-holes with the Hornady 53gr Match HP.
Hornady suggests seating the 45gr Hornet to 1.750". I however would seat as deep as needed to give light resistance on seating, or deeper.
My Hornet requires brass sized to give no resistance and bullets off the throat such as to "lay" in the chamber to shoot accurately due to a mis-aligned chamber.

 

[acechanley]

Ditto on the small pistol primers. I don't even weigh the powder just fill the case up and seat the bullet. Actually use at cut case with a braised handle my father made in 1945. Scoop and seat the bullet. Easiest round I reload.


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[JCmax]

I, too, am a Hornet fan. My Browning A-bolt likes Varm Extreme 34gr HPFB bullets, REM SPP & 12.2gr lil gun. Just about all i can get into PPU cases.

Using Hornady's comparator tool I measure 1.541" @ ogive == ~0.010" off the lands.

Shoots very well with no magazine issues.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've loaded and shot the Hornet for many years -- my rifle is a Kimber of Oregon M82. Here's what I've learned:

1. Fire form you brass. Hornet chambers are deliberately oversize (because they use the old .22 WCF dimensions.) Once fire-formed, you will have a much better case-to-chamber fit.

2. Disturb the brass as little as possible. Using traditional sizing dies transmits pressure through the case walls, which is not what you want.

3. Size only the front half of the neck. I use a Lee Collet Die and put a couple of washers on the shell holder to cause the collet to activate early and size only the front half of the neck. The unsized lower half acts as a pilot, centering the bullet in the throat.

4. Use Hodgdon's Li'l Gun. I simply dip the cases full, tap them to settle the powerr and set them in the loading block -- then check with a flashlight. Any that are out of line get dumped and refilled..

5. Use the 35-grain Hornady V-Max bullet. Not only is it accurate, but it has a short ogive which allows you to seat the bullet so the shoulder almost touches the origin of the rifling, and is still short enough to feed through the magazine.

 

["Natty" Bumppo]

cz hornet

i load a cz 527 lux hornet,i have never had extraction problems.
i use the 45 grn hornedy .224 # 2230 ,this is a flat base bollet,i only size about 1/16 of the case lip,with rem brass i can get right at 12.5 grans of lil'gun in the case,i use rem. 6 1/2 small pistol primers,this is with the 45 grn bollit.i also load the 35 grn v max flat base with 13.2 grns of lil gun,great out a hundred yrds,but not any good past a hundred.
if you are like me and you are shooting only one hornet then just fire form your brass and size the lip as above.
only use lee collet dies as they do not work the brass like the tapered dies,also the hornet brass is very thin at the case mouth,you must give it a crimp or the round will jump the case from the primer pressure.
let me say this again only use collet dies ,your brass will last much longer and you will not have bullet yaw ,ie; your bollet will be parallel with the case.
i use an electric tooth brush to settle the powder.
in the cz you will have to modify the clip to hold the longer bollets,there is info on this process on line,and it is well worth the trouble.
i have two clips one i did the mod on and one left factory.
you take the clip apart ,there is a plastic spacer in the rear of the clip,i shaved off .110 thousandths in my mill and assembled the clip,i had to modify the lifter also to match the longer gap ,it worked and i can load those 45 grins fine now .
this rifle will put 3 in a hole at 100 yrds,it shot like this like this out of the box,a fine hunting rifle.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Any of y'all have any luck annealing to extend the case life?