I'm aware when people say "22" they generally mean .22 Long Rifle, and I know Long and Short exist as well, but I was lead to believe that .22 Long basically hasn't existed since the 60s and there was really no point to it anymore but today I was in a store I don't really frequent and saw a box of it. I've never in my entire life seen or heard of a firearm dedicated to just Long, and the box didn't look old at all sooo what's the deal with it? Isn't it basically the same dimensions as Long Rifle but less powder and lighter bullet? What's it good for and who would or why would anyone want it over Long Rifle? I can understand shorts as there are dedicated firearms at least and some other uses and reasons, but why Long?
.22 Long?
- Thread starter greenr18
- Start date
- Status
matrem
Member
I still use "long" CBs to run through a 10/22 when noise is very important.
The "short" CBs don't feed through the magazine.
As far as "normal noise" rounds, don't know if those are still in production.
The "short" CBs don't feed through the magazine.
As far as "normal noise" rounds, don't know if those are still in production.
wait that's not the same as cb caps and bb caps is it? I googled CB long and it doesn't look like bb and cb caps, I take it that's the same as just ".22 Long?" Previously I'd only ever heard of cb and bb as far as those smaller-than-Short little primer things.
Deaf Smith
Member
Strangely I have a quantity of 'long' .22 ammo.
Guess it will be a collector's item one day.
Deaf
Guess it will be a collector's item one day.
Deaf
stingsdontit
Member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2015
- Messages
- 10
The first .22 rounds were the shorts. They developed from the Flobert rounds popular in pub shooting games. The 22 short was originally pitched as a self defense round believe it or not.
Then came the long and then extra long. The long was more powerful for hunting small game. The extra long was an attempt to increase the performance of the 22 long but the long rifle took over shortly after.
The 22LR is actually the bullet of the extra long on a long case.
HTH
Dave
Then came the long and then extra long. The long was more powerful for hunting small game. The extra long was an attempt to increase the performance of the 22 long but the long rifle took over shortly after.
The 22LR is actually the bullet of the extra long on a long case.
HTH
Dave
matrem
Member
The CB longs I'm referring to are the same dimensions as the faster .22 longs I used to sneak from dads stash 40 years ago.
Just going slower and far more quiet.
Just going slower and far more quiet.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
.22 Long ammo has slowly fallen by the wayside in the last 20 years or more.
It won't generally function in a semi-auto, which most are anymore.
The Long CB Caps from CCI & Aguila are loaded in LR cases with no powder & light bullets so they will be long enough to feed, and don't foul the LR chambers they will be shot in like the same load in a short case would.
rc
It won't generally function in a semi-auto, which most are anymore.
The Long CB Caps from CCI & Aguila are loaded in LR cases with no powder & light bullets so they will be long enough to feed, and don't foul the LR chambers they will be shot in like the same load in a short case would.
rc
22-rimfire
Member
Manual action rifles with a tubular magazines like the Marlin 39A and others will handle 22 Longs nicely. In years past, Longs cost less than Long Rifles and a few cents a box was important to me. The cost of Long Rifles actually came down some due to the high production volumes and the price of Longs went up for the opposite reason. Same thing happened to Shorts although shorts are still manufactured.
I think the commonality of people choosing the semi-auto 22's that generally will not handle Longs pretty much caused the demise of the Long.
I think the commonality of people choosing the semi-auto 22's that generally will not handle Longs pretty much caused the demise of the Long.
jim in Anchorage
Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2009
- Messages
- 2,849
The long is the long rifle case with the short bullet. Some of the early repeaters-Winchesters 1873 and 1890 come to mind-where chambered in long only.
22-rimfire
Member
That is correct as the Long Rifle did not exist yet.
matrem
Member
The Remington CBee longs I use are in "long rifle" cases as well.
I've never noticed any difference in case length between any longs compared to long rifle. (at least until Stingers)
Those Remington CBs shoot a 30 grain bullet at a claimed 700 fps, and yes, my 10/22 becomes a straight pull bolt when using them.
I've never noticed any difference in case length between any longs compared to long rifle. (at least until Stingers)
Those Remington CBs shoot a 30 grain bullet at a claimed 700 fps, and yes, my 10/22 becomes a straight pull bolt when using them.
Hypnogator
Member
My Grandpa's old '90 Winchester pump is chambered for .22 long. It'll shoot shorts just fine, and I've used it with CB caps to quietly dispatch a couple of ground hogs at our house in Iowa. Last summer I managed to score a couple of boxes of Winchester CB Longs, but this winter in Arizona I finally managed to find a box of CCI .22 Longs at a gun show. Why bother? I can go out into the woods with Grandpa's old rifle and bag a few squirrels for the pot like he did during the Depression. It's kinda like having him there with me again, after all these years. 
MachIVshooter
Member
The long was developed to offer increased performance over the short in the days of black powder. When smokeless powder came along, Stevens arms capitalized on the increased power, attaining the same performance as the extra long in the smaller long case. Thus the .22 Long Rifle was born. The extra long hung in there for awhile, but died out during the great depression.
The long today has performance equal to the short. While it could be loaded to much higher velocity than it is present day, the reason it is not is that there are still some antique firearms around that are so chambered, and they cannot handle the pressure.
As mentioned, one reason it still sells is that manual repeaters which can take all three rounds tend to feed more reliably with the long than the short. For that reason, .22 Long CB caps remain somewhat popular for pest control.
The long today has performance equal to the short. While it could be loaded to much higher velocity than it is present day, the reason it is not is that there are still some antique firearms around that are so chambered, and they cannot handle the pressure.
As mentioned, one reason it still sells is that manual repeaters which can take all three rounds tend to feed more reliably with the long than the short. For that reason, .22 Long CB caps remain somewhat popular for pest control.
Pretty much.
Excellent question and there's no good answer. Which is why so little Long ammo is produced. Most of it is CB Longs, which have very little powder and are very quiet when fired from a rifle, but are long enough to feed easily.
22-rimfire
Member
What's it good for?
That is the important question really. Personally I have found little reason to use Longs these days. Years ago, it was price. I don't have any old rifles chambered for the 22 Long specifically although I can shoot them in my Marlin 39A quite easily.
If I want something quiet, HV longs are not the choice. If I want something low power (and quiet), CB Shorts or Shorts are what I choose. Pretty much only shoot them in manual action rifles or revolvers when I have the urge and that isn't often.
But you would choose them if you are loading them in say a bolt action rifle chambered for Long Rifles so they feed from the magazine as they are the same case length as I recall.
That is the important question really. Personally I have found little reason to use Longs these days. Years ago, it was price. I don't have any old rifles chambered for the 22 Long specifically although I can shoot them in my Marlin 39A quite easily.
If I want something quiet, HV longs are not the choice. If I want something low power (and quiet), CB Shorts or Shorts are what I choose. Pretty much only shoot them in manual action rifles or revolvers when I have the urge and that isn't often.
But you would choose them if you are loading them in say a bolt action rifle chambered for Long Rifles so they feed from the magazine as they are the same case length as I recall.
aarondhgraham
Member
I've never in my entire life seen or heard of a firearm dedicated to just Long,,,
There were a few.
Just last week at a small gun show I saw an older Winchester pump,,,
It was identical to the one I had that was for ".22 short",,,
Except for this one was chambered for ".22 Long".
Aarond
.
There were a few.
Just last week at a small gun show I saw an older Winchester pump,,,
It was identical to the one I had that was for ".22 short",,,
Except for this one was chambered for ".22 Long".
Aarond
.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
The long has always been an "iffy" round. When I was a kid I could buy shorts, longs or long rifles. Shorts were the cheapest, next were longs and long rifles were the most expensive. Now long rifle is the cheapest by far, followed by shorts then longs.
I have not seen a new box of longs, nor do I expect to with the exception of some cb rounds which I do not count. The long used the same case as a lr, but used the short bullet at less mv than the standard long rifle hv. Never made sence, but there were rifles chambered for the long only.
I have not seen a new box of longs, nor do I expect to with the exception of some cb rounds which I do not count. The long used the same case as a lr, but used the short bullet at less mv than the standard long rifle hv. Never made sence, but there were rifles chambered for the long only.
MachIVshooter
Member
It makes perfect sense, and I explained that above.
To reiterate, .22 long was originally black powder. Many guns chambered for the long cannot handle the pressure generated by the long rifle cartridge or the high velocity short. But they are safe with the larger case volume of the long using a charge at or a little below the HV short.
Basically, think of the long as the .38 special, the short as the 9mm (9mm Federal, if you want to stick with rimmed revolver rounds), and the .357 magnum is the long rifle (I guess that would make .357 Maximum the .22 mag in this comparison). The .38 special has a lot more case capacity than the 9mm/9mm Federal, but those two run at much higher pressures than the .38 spl.
Or you could use the .45 ACP short/.45 ACP/.45 Super/.45 win mag. Or the .45 Schofield/.45 Colt/.454 Casull/.460 XVR. Doesn't matter, all the same basic concept of one of those cartridges not being loaded to it's full potential according to case volume because it would be dangerous in many guns.
tark
Member
They are still loading the stuff. I picked up a 100 round box at a gun show last month. Well, actually it was one of those plastic rectangular boxes with the sliding top. It was CCI ammo and I also got a 100 round box of short hollow points. How often do you see those? He had a case of each and I wished I had had more money on me.
Interestingly enough the twist rate for a 22LR is one in sixteen but quite a but slower for shorts and longs. The lighter bullets will shoot OK in the faster twist but if you try the opposite you will get keyholes. I had a single shot 22 short long ago that I rechambered to 22LR . used a drill bit, and got a very nice chamber too, but the 40 grain bullets were spraying all over the place Wouldn't shoot into a foot circle at 25 yards. A lesson learned!
Interestingly enough the twist rate for a 22LR is one in sixteen but quite a but slower for shorts and longs. The lighter bullets will shoot OK in the faster twist but if you try the opposite you will get keyholes. I had a single shot 22 short long ago that I rechambered to 22LR . used a drill bit, and got a very nice chamber too, but the 40 grain bullets were spraying all over the place Wouldn't shoot into a foot circle at 25 yards. A lesson learned!
Ruezim
Member
I am having a hard time visualizing the rounds I know what a short and a long rifle look like. But the others I am not fitting my head around would some one be able to post a picture with the rounds .
Thanks,
Ruezim
Thanks,
Ruezim
351 WINCHESTER
Member
It's just a long rifle case with a short bullet (.22 short). That's it.
herrwalther
Member
- Joined
- May 1, 2013
- Messages
- 8,136
I have a box of .22shorts that I would use to dispatch rodents in my garage. Used to have some .22Long but couldn't find them just a few minutes ago.
VA27
Member
Yup, CCI still loads 'full power' Longs. Some small European pistols were available in 25ACP or 22 Long. Galesi, Rigarmi (sp?) and Bernadelli spring to mind. The Longs were easier to make feed properly than the Short, though Beretta and Astra got it sorted out and made very reliable pistols in Short.
CLP
member
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2010
- Messages
- 1,397
At the rate things are going, all ammo will be collector's items one day soon.
- Status
