.22 LR Micro Pistol Training gun?

[TTv2]

I've been thinking lately about using .22 LR micro pistols as training guns for other pocket guns like the LCP or P3AT because .380 in the small micro pistols is painful and after a dozen or so shots, I start to get the shakes and I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets those shakes and it throws everything off.

Then I thought that if they make .22 Glock uppers and 1911's in .22 LR, why don't they make .22 LR versions of the LCP or other .380 micro pistols? They don't cost very much already and they'd make perfect trainers because they'd allow shooters to stay at the range and practice longer with the exact gun they carry and the ammo would cost a lot less too. I'm sure that there are some design challenges and quirks, but Ruger and S&W are filled with smart people who could come up with something.

Idk, is this a great idea or am I just a stupid kid with a dream?

 

[rpenmanparker]

IMO you aren’t training if you aren’t using the same combo of gun and cartridge. I don’t think shooting a .22 LR through a carry size pistol will teach you much about shooting .380s through it. Feel is part of the experience.

 

[Cokeman]

A few years ago, I suggested to Ruger that they make a .22lr version of the LCP. They decided against it.

 

[TTv2]

A few years ago, I suggested to Ruger that they make a .22lr version of the LCP. They decided against it.

I'm trying to think if there are any .22 pistols out there that don't use a fixed barrel, as having to design the LCP around a fixed barrel may have been the issue, and I can't think of any .22 semi auto pistols that fit the bill.

 

[toivo]

I'm trying to think if there are any .22 pistols out there that don't use a fixed barrel, as having to design the LCP around a fixed barrel may have been the issue, and I can't think of any .22 semi auto pistols that fit the bill.

I can't think of any either. Even the 1911-style .22s are fixed-barrel.

As for a .22 micro pistol, what comes to mind are the Taurus PT-22, the Beretta Bobcat, and the Raven. The Taurus might be a good trainer for DAO action, and the Bobcat for a DA/SA. But neither one is going to feel anything like a centerfire pocket pistol.

 

[rpenmanparker]

I’ve got a new Browning 1911-22. The barrel is not fixed. The mechanism is very similar to any other 1911. The smaller size of that gun comes with a 3 5/8 inch barrel and the frame and slide are always at 85% of standard 1911 dimensions on all versions of the gun. It also comes in .380. That is about as close as you will get to what TTv2 is asking for.

 

[toivo]

I’ve got a new Browning 1911-22. The barrel is not fixed. The mechanism is very similar to any other 1911. The smaller size of that gun comes with a 3 5/8 inch barrel and the frame and slide are always at 85% of standard 1911 dimensions on all versions of the gun. It also comes in .380. That is about as close as you will get to what TTv2 is asking for.

Thanks for that. Apparently the GSG 1911 .22s are the same. And here I thought all the .22 rimfire 1911s were fixed-barrel, like every blowback pistol I've ever encountered.

I learned something today.

 

[MedWheeler]

My PT22 doubles for my PF9 sometimes, and my J22 can double for my P32. But these are pretty much only for practicing point-n-shoot drills, and not substitutes for the "real" guns.

 

[chicharrones]

If you already have a KelTec P3AT, get a KelTec P32. It's not going to be as cheap to shoot as .22LR, but the felt recoil will be reduced quite a bit.

I have a discontinued Taurus TCP732 in .32ACP and it feels much softer to shoot than the same sized gun in .380ACP.

 

[12Bravo20]

Look here: twisted.industries/shop/

They make 22 conversions for Kel-Tec and Ruger 380 and 9mm pistols.

 

[MedWheeler]

chicharrones writes:

I have a discontinued Taurus TCP732 in .32ACP and it feels much softer to shoot than the same sized gun in .380ACP.

I wouldn't mind coming across one of those. I do have the TCP in .380, and the Kel-Tec in .32ACP. The main difference between the Taurus and Kel-Tec .32 caliber guns, though, is that the Taurus version does not "one-up" its .380 caliber brother in magazine capacity.

 

[Cokeman]

I'm trying to think if there are any .22 pistols out there that don't use a fixed barrel, as having to design the LCP around a fixed barrel may have been the issue, and I can't think of any .22 semi auto pistols that fit the bill.

Yeah, but it would have been cool.

 

[TTv2]

If you already have a KelTec P3AT, get a KelTec P32. It's not going to be as cheap to shoot as .22LR, but the felt recoil will be reduced quite a bit.

I have a discontinued Taurus TCP732 in .32ACP and it feels much softer to shoot than the same sized gun in .380ACP.

I really don't care for that long, awful trigger pull in the Kel Tecs. It's bad enough in my Sub 2000, but that's a rifle and I can work around it. For a pistol though, I want it to be able to shoot beyond 7 yards with some ease and the KT's don't do that. Not for me.

Now, if Ruger would come out with an LCP II in .32, that would be up my ally. Ruger's never made a .32 ACP before, I doubt they ever will.

 

[chicharrones]

chicharrones writes:



I wouldn't mind coming across one of those. I do have the TCP in .380, and the Kel-Tec in .32ACP. The main difference between the Taurus and Kel-Tec .32 caliber guns, though, is that the Taurus version does not "one-up" its .380 caliber brother in magazine capacity.

The magazine in the TCP .32 is tall enough to make it a 7 rounder. I modified one of my TCP magazine with parts from a spare .32ACP NAA Guardian magazine to make that TCP magazine a 7 rounder. It loses the ability to lock back when empty, but 7+1 is a bit more comforting than 6+1 if you don't have room for a spare magazine in your pants.

I could PM anyone the photos if they're interested in what I did.

 

[aarondhgraham]

If you have one of the original Ruger LC9 pistols,,,
Twisted Industries makes a dandy .22 adapter kit for that gun.

They also make one for the original LC 380.



The dang thing works like a charm.

My standard thing to do is to run 100 rounds of .22 LR,,,
Then finish up with two or three mags of 9mm.

Aarond

.

 

[Varminterror]

IMO you aren’t training if you aren’t using the same combo of gun and cartridge. I don’t think shooting a .22 LR through a carry size pistol will teach you much about shooting .380s through it. Feel is part of the experience.

In no other “training” would this opinion be felt. Football players run bump off and 50% drills for a reason, they don’t go 100% live every day at practice. Professional fighters don’t go 100% every time they spar, or hit the heavy bag. Equally, professional shooters often have a lightened training load, or a training firearm to run for practice.

Training to mitigate recoil is but one small aspect of the technique; trigger control, breath control, sight picture, grip technique, etc are all aspects a shooter can train with a lighter cartridge.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Well said Varminterror. Yes using a 22cal small barrel does indeed help tremendously with fast point and shoot skills. I have been doing it for years and can personally say training this way has really helped with fast eye to target. I also use Pellet/BB gun. Recoil means you have to find the target quick which is exactly what point and shoot skills is all about. I have read many times where pro's use them for practice. Get in your back yard and start throwing a tin can in the air and quick go to target.
I love to shoot a Phoenix Hpa. I have posted many times that I place about 9 3" reactve targets on a standard range target and shoot as fast as possible to get a round in all 9 targets. There are many drills. I also recently bought a LCR22 to train with my LCR9mm.
Want to hone your rifle skills? Get a really nice Air Rifle. Not a big store Crosman, but a nice German/English Air Rifle. I have been a enthusiast for years.

 

[TTv2]

IMO you aren’t training if you aren’t using the same combo of gun and cartridge. I don’t think shooting a .22 LR through a carry size pistol will teach you much about shooting .380s through it. Feel is part of the experience.

In no other “training” would this opinion be felt. Football players run bump off and 50% drills for a reason, they don’t go 100% live every day at practice. Professional fighters don’t go 100% every time they spar, or hit the heavy bag. Equally, professional shooters often have a lightened training load, or a training firearm to run for practice.

Training to mitigate recoil is but one small aspect of the technique; trigger control, breath control, sight picture, grip technique, etc are all aspects a shooter can train with a lighter cartridge.

I would agree with rpenman to some degree. I think with full size pistols, they tame recoil enough that you should shoot with range ammo in 9, .40, .45 etc. because the recoil isn't that damaging to the body and people can shoot a lot of rounds at a time to practice.

But that all goes out the window with these micro pistols, especially the .380's.

 

[Varminterror]

Even with full size pistols, people develop flinches every... single.... day...

Hundreds of students under me over the years; so many of them get frustrated at the range, then I drop the “ball and dummy” on them, and the rest of the group gets to watch the pistol go “click” as the shooter pushes it into a flinching cartwheel.

 

[Bigmike79]

IMO, the p32 is the best mouse gun ever made, and I've owned a lot of Mouse guns.

380 doesn't give you much stopping power over 32acp in a mouse gun, but 32 gives you a whole lot of shootabliity over 380 in a mouse gun. Load it up with European ball, and call it a day. 32acp puts holes in things. Don't worry about over-penetration. You chose to Cary an under-powered round.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I would agree with rpenman to some degree. I think with full size pistols, they tame recoil enough that you should shoot with range ammo in 9, .40, .45 etc. because the recoil isn't that damaging to the body and people can shoot a lot of rounds at a time to practice.

But that all goes out the window with these micro pistols, especially the .380's.

I shoot Micro pistols all the time, thousands of rounds each year, every week I shoot one. And I can say without a doubt, I could shoot the mild mannered low recoil Pico all day long with no problem. There have been times when I shot 200 rounds through it in one session. Yes, there are some Micro's that are harsh for sure. However frequent training with them builds a immunity to the recoil. Yes a new shooter will or may have a hard time with the LCP for instance. I did the first time I shot one 10 years ago (or when ever they first came out). Actually hurt like heck and was a lousy shot. Went on to burn through 4 of them and simply adjusted, became a much better shooter. The problem is, people do not want to spend the time, money etc. in training.
And a pocket pistol requires more training than a large Pistol. Same with a Snubbie. However, I believe that if you and get to the point of shooting fast to center mass with one of these gun, they will make you a better shot with any gun. And if you carry any gun, you should train frequently with the one you do.
If You cannot take a small barrel 22.cal and shoot well with it, what makes you think you can with a 380 you carry? Point and shoot? Do you really think your eyes quickly going to target over and over really care how much recoil or caliber you are using? Yes, recoil will throw you off target, but training with point and shoot will bring you back quickly. You just have to train over and over.
Besides, 22.cal cost so much LESS. Use the tools offered to you.

 

[someguy2800]

I shoot the crap out of my lc9s though I do load light loads for it. 124 gr at 850 fps. About half way between a 380 and a full power 9mm. I emailed twisted industries about a 22 kit for the lc9s and they said they are working on it. I'll buy it the day they release it.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

One problem with micro-.22s is they are pretty limited. I hunt squirrels and rabbits with a .22 pistol, shoot armadillos and rats with them and so on. As a consequence, all of my .22 pistols are hand-filling guns -- a Colt Woodsman, a Colt Officer's Model Target, a Ruger MKII heavy barrel and an Argentine M1927 with a Colt Service Ace conversion kit mounted on it.