.22 lr

[dashootist]

I think a 10-shot S&W 22LR revolver would be an effective weapon. But I rather have my 38spl wad cutter--cut big hole and less chance of overpenetration and has no recoil.

 

[CHEVELLE427]

again

it will be better then a sharp rock tied to the end of a stick

not my choice but if it is all you have , BETTER THEN NOTHING.

out of state off duty cop killed a bad guy last year here with a NAA 22lr 1 shot, took the guy 7 days to die but he did die

 

[mustang_steve]

If you're going to use a .22lr for home defense, get a bullpup rifle, like a Walther G22 or a Ruger 10/22 with bullpup kit...the Ruger would be the better option as a high-capacity magazine can be used.

This (the bullpup Ruger) gives you a compact, fast handling firearm with plenty of rounds in case you need it. Downside is it may overpenetrate...brightside is velocity is high enough for added benefits such as cavitation, as minor as it may be, every ounce of additional punch matters when using rounds of this power level.

 

[303Jeff]

Although if you were going to get a g22 you could just go ahead and get something more powerful.

 

[Manco]

So im sure you've seen this question before, would a .22 LR pistol be good for HD. I realize its not a first choice, but in my mind, a well placed shot will do the same as a .45.

It can be effective against human targets, in my opinion, but because of its relatively small size, low power, and other issues that have already been brought up in this thread, it would be of great benefit to very carefully select the right combination of quality ammunition and firearm (mostly with regard to barrel length) that will likely achieve effective terminal ballistics.

First let me address the issue of stopping power--except perhaps for the most powerful centerfire rifles, there is no such thing unless you hit the right spots, namely the CNS or major cardiovascular structures. So it's really all about shot placement, just like most everybody says these days.

Now let me address how people view shot placement. Some people at least seem to think or imply that in a real shooting you can so precisely place shots that a slightly larger bullet (even a .45 ACP bullet is only slightly larger than a .22 LR bullet--it may be about twice as wide, but twice of tiny is still tiny in comparison to the body) will give you some margin, but in my opinion that doesn't have much validity. Unless the bad guy is just standing still begging to be shot, you may need luck to hit him at all, and luck is exactly what will determine exactly where you hit him and whether that shot will be effective. In fact, luck ultimately determines the outcome of everything in life, and all we can do is affect the probability. Larger bullets will improve your chances in this game of luck, but only by a little bit, not the huge difference that many wish to believe (as I once did).

However, one thing that you do need in order to have any chance in the first place is sufficient penetration, which is often iffy with .22 LR. This is what depends the most heavily on the combination of ammunition load and firearm. Sometimes more powerful/faster loads will penetrate more, but sometimes the opposite is true. What I want to stress, though, is that .22 LR can indeed achieve sufficient penetration to be effective--just as much penetration as a typical defensive JHP load in a larger handgun caliber, or even more if you like.

Let's look at some examples before continuing. The CCI Stinger, a favorite among many because of its extremely high velocity and energy for .22 LR, is actually not that useful against humans. The hollow-point bullet is light and weakly constructed, and when shot out of a rifle will literally explode into fragments at a shallow depth, which while spectacularly devastating against squirrels and such, is not very effective against larger creatures. Shot out of a handgun with a medium-length barrel, the bullet may actually expand as designed, which limits penetration severely in this caliber, thereby limiting its overall effectiveness. Only in snub-nosed revolvers (and various derringers) does this load shine against human targets, penetrating enough to be effective by most standards (because it does not expand in this case). The CCI Velocitor, on the other hand, works well out of both medium-length handguns and rifles, achieving sufficient penetration in both and expanding in the latter to improve your odds a little bit; out of snub-nosed revolvers, I imagine that penetration would be somewhat lacking, however. There are many other examples to consider, and a few lab tests to verify some of them, but the point is that there are ammo/firearm combinations in .22 LR that are effective for defensive purposes, as long as you're careful in choosing.

Another issue to address is reliability. Frankly, I wouldn't trust semiautomatic handguns in .22 LR, but revolvers and many rifles are fine. One issue with rimfire ammunition in general is its well known lack of reliability in ignition, but that's only true for cheap bulk ammunition. Quality rimfire ammunition from CCI, Aguila's specialty loads, and Eley match loads, for example, have been about as reliable as centerfire ammunition, in my experience.

And finally (as if! ), I'd like to stress the importance of how well one can shoot a certain caliber over its physical attributes. Although some calibers are certainly more effective than others, even .22 LR can be nearly as effective as any, so this is nowhere near as important as being able to accurately place a quick succession of shots into a target. There is simply no better way of maximizing your chances of a successful stop through shot placement than placing lots of shots! Regarding handguns, some people can shoot .45 ACP or .40 S&W both quickly and accurately, so I wouldn't blame them for using those calibers at all, but some people (especially beginners) can shoot .22 LR a whole lot better than they could larger calibers, so it may well be advantageous overall for them to shoot .22 LR (as hard as that might be for them to admit).

 

[hso]

would a .22 LR pistol be good for HD. I realize its not a first choice, but in my mind, a well placed shot will do the same as a .45.

A .22lr used by assassins is as effective as a .45 in an assassination because the environment and situation are very controlled. Putting a .22 round through an eye/ear/septum into the brain is only probable because of the planning/preparation/control of the environment and situation. That said any deviation from perfect placement means that you have a far greater likelihood of failure with the lower energy .22lr.

A home defense situation is entirely different and you're potential for fight stopping placement of the .22 is very low since you know a fight stopper is going to be one of a very few options with the smaller caliber. Since you don't have the advantage of high probability of very particular shot placement you need to make up for that with bullet momentum and energy so you can stretch and tear a larger wound channel, something the .22lr lacks by comparison. The fact that the BG might eventually die due to being shot by a .22lr is far from the desired effect of stopping a fight with much greater momentum and energy from the .45.

So, the fact that you can kill with a .22lr isn't relevant for HD since your goal is to stop the fight right away. Stopping fights is about delivering more energy to the BG.

 

[orionengnr]

1. Do a SEARCH.
2.
3. Yes, a .22LR is better than nothing.
4. By extension, almost anything else is better than a .22LR.

Conclusion: This is not a ringing endorsement of the .22LR.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Well why are you depending on a .22? If money is tight buy a high point in a proper caliber. They are ugly as sin, but they are reliable enough and last I saw you can get them for about $100.

.22 is a good training round, in a pinch its better than harsh words but thats about it.

 

[DasFriek]

This is me and you can disagree.
Let me turn the tables a moment.
Imagine someone breaks into my house, Not 1 guy but 2.
One has a small .22/.25 which is rather easy to know what caliber it is by looking at it.
The other guy has a 12" survival knife.
And you have to get past one of them to reach your firearm, Which will you attack?

Me im going threw the guy with the small caliber gun.
Most likely he will miss me as long as we are engaged, If he does hit me adrenalin will pump so hard ill never feel it and he only has maybe 6 shots. A good chance also is his gun will jam while we are wrestling as im getting my hand on that slide. I may be fatally wounded and later die, But most likley will be 90% functioning for quite a while.

Now if i went against the 12" knife guy id say 1 good COM stab and i very well may be done for as i stand there, Bleeding out will happen very quickly.
Self defense moves of grabbing the knife is worse than not grabbing for it.
Im not trained in hand to hand combat so id be at a real disadvantage.

Of course many things can happen differently.
Had the first guy had a 9mm there isnt no way im gonna attack him, Or the second guy for that matter. I guess id just wet myself and pray at that point.

No ive never been shot before, Nor have i been cut more than a couple stitches couldn't fix.
But psychologically in a life and death situation im more than prepared to be shot with a small caliber IF the other consequences are worse.

But id bet id have a 90% chance of reaching my weapon and hopefully filling them full of .45acp

Now your question, Would a .22lr be good for HD?
Its better than nothing, But usually many other things are better.

 

[03Shadowbob]

Would I trust my life to a 22? Yeah. I am pretty sure I could get the majority of my shots to land around the cranial cavity if needed however would those 22 rounds have enough mass and energy to break through tough bone whether a rib, femur, a skull, a pelvis, etc.. Why take the chance? I know my life is worth more than a 22lr. Yours? Maybe not. That is for you to decide.

 

[Tim the student]

I can only think of shorts and CBs as being worse for SD than .22lr.

I'd be saving, scrimping, eating a lot of ramen, and selling plasma until I could get something better.

 

[DasFriek]

I can only think of shorts and CBs as being worse for SD than .22lr.

I'd be saving, scrimping, eating a lot of ramen, and selling plasma until I could get something better.

Id bet if its a money issue the OP may have someone in his life who would loan/give/buy him a gun for HD if he asked the right person.

I know most people on this board would do it if someone in their family or close friend asked for that.

 

[Tim the student]

^^ DasFriek, I bet you're right, but it may not be a money issue at all.

Just saying that if it was, I'd find a way to get around it.

 

[bigalexe]

If the choice is a .22lr single-shot break-action rifle or a sling-shot I am taking the .22lr

If the choice is a .22lr or a (insert anything but .17hmr here), I am taking the (not .22).

 

[oasis618]

If the choice is a .22lr single-shot break-action rifle or a sling-shot I am taking the .22lr

If the choice is a .22lr or a (insert anything but .17hmr here), I am taking the (not .22).

I'd take the .17HMR. At least the BG would bleed on both sides.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Originally Posted by bigalexe
If the choice is a .22lr single-shot break-action rifle or a sling-shot I am taking the .22lr

If the choice is a .22lr or a (insert anything but .17hmr here), I am taking the (not .22).

I think i'd take the sling shot or the .17 hmr too

As said already, a .22lr can be deadly, I've seen it kill, but the point of defense isn't to kill, but to stop...very different things. I've also arrested folks who had been shot with a .22lr and went on to beat their shooter...when we got them to the hospital, we found that they had been shot before and the bullets were still there

 

[jeffmack]

I got a bad shot in on a squirrel one time. It was crawling around on the ground trying to escape after I had shot it in the back with a 22lr. It probably would still be alive if I hadn't put it out of it's misery.

A squirrel.

I don't hardly use a 22 for much of anything now.

 

[duns]

The OP asked specifically about home defense. I don't see the attraction of .22 for HD unless it is the very cheap ammo to enable him to practice a lot. If finances allow, a full size 9mm pistol would be a better choice -- cheapest ammo of the "serious" calibers and very easy to shoot well in a full size pistol.

 

[ms6852]

The 22 is better than nothing. The most important thing to remember is how confident you are in shooting this particular caliber. If you are very confident than you are already better off than no weapon at all. I personally would feel better with a rifle like the ruger 10/22 in which you can attach a 25 round magazine, now you really have a very deadly weapon with regular practice.

 

[GLOOB]

No ive never been shot before, Nor have i been cut more than a couple stitches couldn't fix.
But psychologically in a life and death situation im more than prepared to be shot with a small caliber IF the other consequences are worse.

Ok, but for the average home invader the other consequences are usually BETTER. Running away to rob/murder/rape another day is a lot better than getting shot repeatedly with a .22LR and possibly dying.

 

[DasFriek]

Ok, but for the average home invader the other consequences are usually BETTER. Running away to rob/murder/rape another day is a lot better than getting shot repeatedly with a .22LR and possibly dying.

Not all home invaders are scared away so easily. Some are bent on murder and on enough drugs they aren't thinking and don't care about getting shot.

Put a few .22 rounds in someone who is mentally disturbed and on drugs and all you did was make them madder.

They see no consequences at all.
In my post all i was trying to show was how un-effective a .22 can be by reversing the roles. And even in that scenario i wouldn't be disturbed or strung out on drugs and the .22 still remained a better option to go up against instead of a 12" fighting knife.

I will say 25 rounds of .22 may stop someone or at least make them get the picture. But thats still a risky chance imo.

 

[gun guy]

The main problem when asking if a 22lr, will work in a HD situtation, is that 99.3% of those responding with an opinion have never been closer to a gunfight than their xbox. and about 85% of those that have the custom tuned 45 megagunfighter magnum special and swear by its stopping power, would leave a little yellow trail on their way to the farthest place they could run to the fastest. That leaves .7 percent of that catagory .5 percent are at least hunters that have probably seen failure to stop from a rifle yet realize a hit from any weapon can be fatal and respond with decent advice. First, the mere presence of a firearm is often enough to stop an assault, thats right from the NRA. The zodiac killer was thwarted by a father who had been teaching his son to shoot a 22 rifle. He was about as dedicated and dangerous a killer you need. (the lake beryessa shooting). 2nd SVAZ is 100% correct about the muzzle flash scaring off the intruder. Often, even trained soliders lose their nerve once the incoming starts, let alone some punk. Keep in mind, criminals are cowards, and not very bright ones at that. 3rd. ANY decent hit will require an intruder to seek medical help and that generates a call to the police. Even a dimwitted punk knows this, and can't afford to stay and trade shots. 4th in most neighborhoods, more than a few shots draws police, once the first round goes off, the concious of guilt is working against him. you can see, before we even get to the blood n guts stuff. The odds of driving off an intruder with a 22lr is very good already. Add to those above facts, the 22lr has probably killed more creatures than the 30 06 which is a hunting round, as well as going to war many times. The round is PROVEN deadly. Most people would agree you tend to practice more with a 22 and your hit probability with it is good. So, given all the above data, when some young gun, starts showing you his chrome plated hand cannon, and extoling its virtues over your little 22, smile kindly and walk away.

 

[BlacklabelOP]

Ruger 22/45 or Walther p22... both would work fine for your needs.. If you don't want to worry so much about jams get yourself a 10rnd revolver.
I have a safe full of guns pistols and shotguns ect and when I am not around my g/f sleeps with a crowbar instead of pulling something out of the safe.. so use what u want...

shoot you can even add alittle dookicky like I did to my ruger to prevent night blindness incase you are shooting it indoors at night, im not sure but I also think it might make it quiter..

 

[kludge]

Well placed shot from a .22 is not the same as a .45.

But at any rate...

Revolver. 40gr solids. And make mine a Magnum.

 

[Carl Levitian]

"The main problem when asking if a 22lr, will work in a HD situtation, is that 99.3% of those responding with an opinion have never been closer to a gunfight than their xbox. and about 85% of those that have the custom tuned 45 megagunfighter magnum special and swear by its stopping power, would leave a little yellow trail on their way to the farthest place they could run to the fastest. That leaves .7 percent of that catagory .5 percent are at least hunters that have probably seen failure to stop from a rifle yet realize a hit from any weapon can be fatal and respond with decent advice. First, the mere presence of a firearm is often enough to stop an assault, thats right from the NRA. The zodiac killer was thwarted by a father who had been teaching his son to shoot a 22 rifle. He was about as dedicated and dangerous a killer you need. (the lake beryessa shooting). 2nd SVAZ is 100% correct about the muzzle flash scaring off the intruder. Often, even trained soliders lose their nerve once the incoming starts, let alone some punk. Keep in mind, criminals are cowards, and not very bright ones at that. 3rd. ANY decent hit will require an intruder to seek medical help and that generates a call to the police. Even a dimwitted punk knows this, and can't afford to stay and trade shots. 4th in most neighborhoods, more than a few shots draws police, once the first round goes off, the concious of guilt is working against him. you can see, before we even get to the blood n guts stuff. The odds of driving off an intruder with a 22lr is very good already. Add to those above facts, the 22lr has probably killed more creatures than the 30 06 which is a hunting round, as well as going to war many times. The round is PROVEN deadly. Most people would agree you tend to practice more with a 22 and your hit probability with it is good. So, given all the above data, when some young gun, starts showing you his chrome plated hand cannon, and extoling its virtues over your little 22, smile kindly and walk away. " Quoted from gun guy.


I was going to chip in, but this guy said it so well, I'll just give a thumbs up to his post. As a former police officer, his judgement of criminals is the truest so far.