I guess I am confused with concerns over pistol velocity decrease vs a rifle. It does not matter what the .22 Magnum does in a rifle for this discussion. In a handgun .22 Magnum is clearly and significantly more effective than .22LR.
.22 Mag vs .22 LR: Extra power worth it?
- Thread starter TTv2
- Start date
- Status
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Don't need hints. I own revolvers and carbines in .22 WMR and .357 magnum. My .22 WMR handguns aren't used for self defense, yet by some miracle* I still like handguns chambered for .22 WMR.
*freedom of choice
Good Ol' Boy
Member
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Nuttin'. Just my fanboi-ness of .22 WMR coming out. Blame an old friend of mine with a .22 mag lever gun and autoloader for introducing me to the cartridge.
FL-NC
Member
The 22 mag even in a rifle is hard for me to justify and I have one. There's nothing I would use it for that I couldn't just as well use 223. Not a fan of any rimfire for SD use, unless someone had some issue that physically prevented use of something bigger.
Carl N. Brown
Member
.subForum : Handguns : Autoloaders
.22 Mag vs .22 LR: Extra power worth it?
Probably not for power. But there is a gain, just not as much as you get with a rifle.
.22 Mag vs .22 LR: .22 Mag worth it for more consistent priming.
I have not had fail to fire with my .22 magnum firearms (a bolt and a pump rifles & a revolver).
The only dud .22 magnum rimfire cartridges I have found at the range had very light firing pin strikes.
Also .22 Magnum rimfire cartridges with jacketed bullets will stand up to rough handling better than .22 LR.
.22 Mag vs .22 LR: Extra power worth it?
Probably not for power. But there is a gain, just not as much as you get with a rifle.
.22 Mag vs .22 LR: .22 Mag worth it for more consistent priming.
I have not had fail to fire with my .22 magnum firearms (a bolt and a pump rifles & a revolver).
The only dud .22 magnum rimfire cartridges I have found at the range had very light firing pin strikes.
Also .22 Magnum rimfire cartridges with jacketed bullets will stand up to rough handling better than .22 LR.
gwpercle
Member
I believe it was Col. Charles Askins who said "the 22 Magnum killed all out of porportion to it's size !"
A 22 magnum handgun holding 30 rounds of 22 magnum + a spare loaded magazine has always struck me as being a most formidal arm for self defense to have on your belt .
If I have the chance and funds I would get one .
Gary
A 22 magnum handgun holding 30 rounds of 22 magnum + a spare loaded magazine has always struck me as being a most formidal arm for self defense to have on your belt .
If I have the chance and funds I would get one .
Gary
Autodidactic
Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2021
- Messages
- 1,023
Small handgun with only a little gain? No. But, in rifles i understand .22 mag is substantially more powerful
Good Ol' Boy
Member
Nuttin'. Just my fanboi-ness of .22 WMR coming out. Blame an old friend of mine with a .22 mag lever gun and autoloader for introducing me to the cartridge.
I'm a fan as well. I'm very fond of that rifle I posted a pic of. It will smack golf balls all day long at 150yds for plinking, its a great varment dispatcher, and would probably take medium sized game as well (although I've never tried).
But out of a pistol its really a novelty range toy because it loses all its potential. Doesn't mean it's not still fun to shoot.
Skylerbone
Member
So shooting a better bullet at speeds faster than CCI Velocitor shoots from a rifle, out of a pistol size package has no potential??? People carry pocket pistols and compact pistols because ARs don’t always match your dinner jacket so I’d hardly say all potential is lost. Still cheaper than any centerfire round, still really fun to shoot.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
So, after all that you're right back to your first post in the thread. Which comes across as simply crappin' in a .22 WMR handgun thread because .22 WMR in a handgun doesn't suit your needs.
Just like driving in traffic when I'm courteous to other drivers, their actions afterwards make me regret it 90% of the time.
jmorris
Member
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,330
I didn’t see his post as poo pooing the WMR (goes as far as saying he’s “very fond” of one he has and shoots) as much as having observed how quickly it looses ground as barrel length is shortened. Those observations mirror the ones I have made as well.
I also think .223 looses a heck of a lot of ground, as barrel length gets shorter. Because I have them from 26” barrels down to contender length pistols and have recorded them too. I’m not saying a contender pistol doesn’t suit some need in me but I know what it’s not.
One thing is for certain, to some the extra powder, even from shorter barrels, the mag is worth it. To others it doesn’t seem to be. The OP will have to let us know if it is to him. I think he should have at least one to form an opinion.
I also think .223 looses a heck of a lot of ground, as barrel length gets shorter. Because I have them from 26” barrels down to contender length pistols and have recorded them too. I’m not saying a contender pistol doesn’t suit some need in me but I know what it’s not.
One thing is for certain, to some the extra powder, even from shorter barrels, the mag is worth it. To others it doesn’t seem to be. The OP will have to let us know if it is to him. I think he should have at least one to form an opinion.
Last edited:
doubleh
Member
I used to have pretty good luck dispatching wraskly wabbits and prairiedogs with a Ruger single six in in 22 mag and at a pretty good distance when I could prop up on something despite it's supposedly poor performance in shorter barrels. Like I said before it always has more oomph on the hitting end than the 22 LR out of the same length barrel. I have never considered it a self defense round but would certainly use it for that if circumstances left it as my only option.
Ya'll have fun poo-pooing the WMR or not. It's kind of worth shooting as a range toy for the noise and light show. What else that small is that ear splitting and fire breathing? Yeah, it's as expensive as 9mm but you don't get all that flash and bang with almost no recoil.
Ya'll have fun poo-pooing the WMR or not. It's kind of worth shooting as a range toy for the noise and light show. What else that small is that ear splitting and fire breathing? Yeah, it's as expensive as 9mm but you don't get all that flash and bang with almost no recoil.
Good Ol' Boy
Member
OP
OP
TTv2
Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 5,033
I'm not gonna say I dislike the concept of the PMR30, but I see a lot more potential and use for the CMR30 because it is a semi auto .22 Mag carbine that weighs almost nothing and collapses down to almost nothing.
I have the CP33 already, I certainly enjoy shooting it and with the hot stuff like Velocitor, Stinger, etc. it's got good power.
I had an interest in the PMR because it was something I wanted to play with for a little while, but not necessarily keep forever. Kind of doesn't make sense to do that right now.
I feel like the CMR-30 probably has more potential if it had the shape of the SU-16 style of rifles. The main reason why, is the way the grip has to be extended to accommodate the .22 Mag round. There was a thread recently that discussed the scarcity of .22 Mag Semi auto pistols, and one of the arguments was the grip might be uncomfortable.
However, full disclosure, I've never even seen an SU-16 rifle, let alone held one. So what do I know.
OP
OP
TTv2
Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2016
- Messages
- 5,033
The CP33 uses the same size magazine as the PMR30, it's just mainly plastic. Anyway, the shape of the grip on the pistols is large and were it shooting a larger caliber that generated more recoil would be uncomfortable, but with .22's it's not a major issue. They are definitely pistols for people with larger hands, which means most women aren't going to handle them well.
I don't think the size of the grip for the carbine is going to be an issue as it's shouldered.
That's a very ,very fair and informed point. I suppose my philosophy was based around the fact that it's fed just like a pistol, but you're absolutely right.
I have small hands and don't have any problems with the CMR30, PMR30, or CP33. And one of the things that I do like about the PMR and CMR is the fact that they do use the same magazines. Plus I couldn't buy another rifle in 22WMR that is as light as the CMR30.
The PMR30 is not as accurate as the CMR30 or CP33. But the PMR30 is accurate enough and the 22WMR still packs a bigger punch that 22lr out of a pistol barrel. The PMR is not my first choice for HD/SD but I would still use it if that what was on hand.
The PMR30 is not as accurate as the CMR30 or CP33. But the PMR30 is accurate enough and the 22WMR still packs a bigger punch that 22lr out of a pistol barrel. The PMR is not my first choice for HD/SD but I would still use it if that what was on hand.
skfullen
Member
As I mentioned in my previous post, I converted a Ruger Bearcat to 22wmr. When I'm on my rural property I carry it pretty much 24/7. I am very happy to have the additional power and superior bullet construction of a 22 wmr over the 22 long rifle. I shoot it well and I am comfortable with it.
FWIW, I also carry an NAA mini in 22 lr, loaded with shotshells, always. I dispatched at least 22 copperheads in my fenced yard last summer, and I'm up to four, or five this year, with the 22 NAA.
When I go to town (30 miles away), I carry something more appropriate. When I head south to the coast where the rattlesnake reigns supreme (Matagorda), I transition to a 7 and 1/2-in barrel Ruger single six with a 22 magnum cylinder and shotshells.
To each his own.
I live in the sticks. I figure six shots of 22wmr will give me time to retrieve an AR.
FWIW, I also carry an NAA mini in 22 lr, loaded with shotshells, always. I dispatched at least 22 copperheads in my fenced yard last summer, and I'm up to four, or five this year, with the 22 NAA.
When I go to town (30 miles away), I carry something more appropriate. When I head south to the coast where the rattlesnake reigns supreme (Matagorda), I transition to a 7 and 1/2-in barrel Ruger single six with a 22 magnum cylinder and shotshells.
To each his own.
I live in the sticks. I figure six shots of 22wmr will give me time to retrieve an AR.
R_P_K
Member
Out of a handgun, a .22 mag has approximately the same muzzle velocity as a .22lr Rifle has at the muzzle. It is much more potent for varmints, for plinking and punching holes in paper a .22lr is perfect
mokin
Member
This thread got me thinking....
The stars aligned today and after some work and some chores I took a few.22s and a .22 WMR out to the range, along with my Chrony. I had a Browning ATD with a 16 inch barrel, a Ruger Mk IV with a four inch barrel, a New England Firearms revolver with a two in barrel, all chambered in .22 LR, and a North American Arms Black Widow chambered in .22 WMR. Both brands of ammunition were CCI so there is some consistency there.
I was firing ten shot strings over the chronograph. Average velocities and foot pounds of energy follow:
Browning
1276.1 fps, 145 fpe
Ruger Mk IV
1127.7 fps, 113 fpe
NEF revolver
973.5 fps, 84 fpe
NAA Black Widow, in .22 Magnum
1166.5 fps, 121 fpe
I realize this thread is in the autoloader forum but I haven't been able to pick up a PMR 30 so this is what I can do.
I found it interesting that the.22 Mag out of a two inch barrel comes in between the .22 LR out of a four inch and 16 inch barrel and is a lot more powerful than the .22 LR out of a comparable two inch barrel.
Is it worth the extra power? I can't answer for you, I just cooked this up for comparison. Out of a larger handgun, I'd definitely say yes.
The stars aligned today and after some work and some chores I took a few.22s and a .22 WMR out to the range, along with my Chrony. I had a Browning ATD with a 16 inch barrel, a Ruger Mk IV with a four inch barrel, a New England Firearms revolver with a two in barrel, all chambered in .22 LR, and a North American Arms Black Widow chambered in .22 WMR. Both brands of ammunition were CCI so there is some consistency there.
I was firing ten shot strings over the chronograph. Average velocities and foot pounds of energy follow:
Browning
1276.1 fps, 145 fpe
Ruger Mk IV
1127.7 fps, 113 fpe
NEF revolver
973.5 fps, 84 fpe
NAA Black Widow, in .22 Magnum
1166.5 fps, 121 fpe
I realize this thread is in the autoloader forum but I haven't been able to pick up a PMR 30 so this is what I can do.
I found it interesting that the.22 Mag out of a two inch barrel comes in between the .22 LR out of a four inch and 16 inch barrel and is a lot more powerful than the .22 LR out of a comparable two inch barrel.
Is it worth the extra power? I can't answer for you, I just cooked this up for comparison. Out of a larger handgun, I'd definitely say yes.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Always good to go shooting, @mokin! I can’t wait ‘til I can get in some shootin’ time again!
Your chrono numbers made me remember to look up an old record I had when shooting .22 WMR with a friend of who has a chrony and a PMR30, among other things.
Keltec PMR 30 4.3" bbl (Chamber length does reduce “usable” barrel length a bit, but there is no cylinder gap.)
Hornady VMax 30 grain = 1578 fps avg.
CCI Choot Em 40 grain JHP = 1236 fps avg.
Hornady Critical Defense 45 grain = 1264 fps avg.
If muzzle energy is figured in, those cartridges above would come in about 166, 136, and 160 respectively in foot pounds.
Your chrono numbers made me remember to look up an old record I had when shooting .22 WMR with a friend of who has a chrony and a PMR30, among other things.
Keltec PMR 30 4.3" bbl (Chamber length does reduce “usable” barrel length a bit, but there is no cylinder gap.)
Hornady VMax 30 grain = 1578 fps avg.
CCI Choot Em 40 grain JHP = 1236 fps avg.
Hornady Critical Defense 45 grain = 1264 fps avg.
If muzzle energy is figured in, those cartridges above would come in about 166, 136, and 160 respectively in foot pounds.
Last edited:
I had a hairbrained idea to try out .22 Magnum as a backup caliber when even 9mm was hard to find (but .22 Mag was available, at the same cost as 9mm). What I found was that in a snub nosed revolver (Ruger LCR) the accuracy sucked. It wouldn't group worth a darn. But then, my Charter Pathfinder snub in .22LR doesn't either, so I'm not sure if it's just that .22 in a short barrel just plain sucks, or if it's me, or what. I gave up on the idea, since the extra power and cost of magnum just wasn't worth it in the application I intended.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Heavy rimfire double action triggers in short barrel revolvers are indeed hard to shoot well.
- Status
Similar threads
