.223 case resizing

[Lariatbob]

Well, I searched for a while before starting a new thread, but didn't find anything.
Looking for info on .223 Remington case resizing. Here's what I am running into-

I have reloaded a bunch for my AR, no problems. Last time out, had a bunch of jams. Seems the cartridge is sticking in the chamber before the bolt can close and lock.
Checking my resources, I see the case diameter should be .378. The rounds that stick are a bit larger starting at 1/4 inch from the base.
I am using a RCBS Full Length die set, but the case gets to the shoulder sizing part of the die about 1/4 inch before the brass is fully seated at the bottom. This is exactly where I am seeing sizing variations.
Should the full length die re-size all the way to the base? There's no adjustment for the shoulder, it's all one piece.
Do I need to un-load and trash all of the out-of-tolerance brass? Sure would be a shame since the rest of it is in real good shape.
Case length is good, so I know it is entering the dies as far as it can.
Is there a way to reduce the diameter of the case at the bottom?
I am hoping someone will be able to tell me a way to save it all and come to a happy ending. If I have to scrap it, well, I guess that's part of the game.
Thanks again.
LariatBob

 

[uneasy_rider]

Are you checking your resized brass with a case gauge?

It sounds like you die just isnt screwed in far enough. Get a case gauge and check your resized brass. If it won't fit in the case gauge, screw your die in a little further and keep rechecking. Once you get your brass to where it fits in the case gauge, it will feed in your AR.

A full length sizing die should size all the way to the casehead. When you have your case fully in the die, look and see if you can see light between the shell holder and the bottom of the die. If you can, your die isnt in far enough. If you can't see light you are full length sizing.

Someone is going to come along and advise you get a small base die. I do not believe that will help you. Your problem is setting up the die you have. I have both regular and small base dies. I never use the small base dies any more, even with machine gun fired brass. I think they are a gimmick.

 

[steve4102]

I think rider has it right. Your FL dies are not set properly. Please give a detailed explanation of how you set up your FD dies. That will help us figure things out.

 

[243winxb]

Lariatbob, There is a small part of the brass near the head that is not touched by the RCBS FL sizing die even when the shell holder is in full contact with the FL die. This is because the die has a bevel. When firing a maximum or to high pressure load this part of the brass may drag on loading if the chamber is a little oval or the brass was fired in a different gun. AS said above, make sure your die is adjusted correctly.

 

[Lariatbob]

Well, I think you all hit the problem on the head. I thought I had the proper FL dies, looking closer it seems I bought the small base die. First rifle dies, didn't know the difference.
So if I get the Full Length I should be able to resize to the base, right?
That would be good, since I found about 500 cases I have are too big per my micrometer.
Now I have to buy FL dies for the .223, FL dies for my .303 British since I bought a bunch of once-fired for it and they won't chamber.
I think I'll get the proper dies and quit buying used brass. Geez!
Or, I could not buy the dies and toss the bad brass and forget about it......
Nah.

Thanks again, I appreciate the lessons.

LariatBob

 

[uneasy_rider]

If you have small base dies, you might as well use them, though they will work the brass a little more. I think they are a gimmick, and are usually not needed, but if you have them you might as well use them.

Your problem is that you don't have your dies adjusted correctly, and you don't appear to be checking your sizing results with a case gauge. Its a crap shoot unless you use a gauge.

 

[Lariatbob]

Well, I have a gauge on order now. I found the fault by using a micrometer. I had honestly never had a problem until the other day. Or, should I say, I never realized I had a problem.
The small base die is fixed as far as the case depth. The shoulder for the neck is machined into the main die body and is therefore a set distance from base to shoulder. The only adjustment is for the decapping pin/ inside neck sizing.
I will order the Full Length dies next paycheck, then check back if I need assistance adjusting. I am so not looking forward to disassembling 500 rounds and starting over. A lesson in humility for me. haha.
Thank again, Rider- and the rest of you- for your input.

 

[uneasy_rider]

I check every case I reload with the case gauge, and if a case isnt in spec, I trash it.

 

[243winxb]

So if I get the Full Length I should be able to resize to the base, right?

NO. http://www.rcbs.com/questions/dies_questions.aspx

 

[243winxb]

FAQ - Reloading Dies

Q. I've reloaded for over 20 years, and I have a problem I've never experienced before. After cases are sized, they won't chamber in my rifle. I took my rifle to my gunsmith and he says the chamber is dimensionally correct. Factory ammunition works just fine. There must be something wrong with the dies!

A. There are several places where things can go wrong:

1. Be sure the dies are the same caliber as the gun chamber.

2. When setting up the full length sizer die, screw the die down until it touches the shell holder at the top of the press stroke. Then lower the shell holder and screw the die down about 1/8 to 1/4 turn. You will feel a slight thump as the leverage system cams over center. Size the case and again check it in the chamber. Size a couple more cases and check in the chamber. If these cases chamber, go ahead and size and load the rest of the cases.

3. If the cases don't chamber, please return the sizer die along with the five fired cases. The fired cases will give us your chamber dimensions and if the chamber is in standard factory tolerance, we'll make the necessary adjustment in the die for you without cost. If, upon our inspection the chamber is out of standard specification, we will notify you of the cost of producing a die to those specifications.


Q. I see a Small Base Die Set listed for my caliber. Do I need these or should I buy a Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set? How does each set differ?

A. The Small Base Die set is intended for use for ammunition to be used in auto, semi-auto, and lever action rifles so that the loaded round chambers and extracts easily. The Small Base Sizer Die sizes the case from the shoulder to the head of the case a couple of thousandths smaller than a Full Length Sizer Die. In certain calibers it also sets the shoulder of the case back a thousandth or two more than the Full Length Sizer Die. The Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set is not normally recommended for ammo to be used in auto, semi-auto, or lever action rifles. The Full Length Die set is recommended for ammunition used in bolt action rifles, particularly for ammunition to be used for hunting. The Neck Die Set can also be used to produce ammunition for use in bolt action rifles. The Neck Sizer Die sizes only the neck of the case so it will hold the bullet firmly. It does not size the body of the case nor does it set the shoulder back. Neck sized cases will usually chamber for three or more firings, depending on the powder charge and chamber dimensions. However, over a period of time, a slight drag will be noticed when the bolt is locked. At this point, cases will need to be full length sized and the shoulder set back so they will chamber and extract easily.

 

[243winxb]

Small Base dies should work if used correctly. If this brass was fired in your gun before with NO problems and this is the 2nd or more times you have loaded the brass. Your problem might be to HOT of a LOAD. If your die does NOT correct the large diameter part of the brass on sizing, you might have to scrap the brass that is to big in the head area. You may want to reduce the amount of powder if this is the problem. Case life with a maximum load is about 3 firings.

 

[30Cal]

Small base dies squeeze the base of the case tighter than an FL die. If they don't feed after going through a correctly set SB die, the FL die isnt' going to cut it either.

Your resized brass should be smaller at the case head than your fired brass. Ignore what the book says; the case has to fit into your chamber, not the book.

Get the case gage, and then figure out what's going on. Use it to set the resizing die.

These cases are trimmed, right?

 

[rcmodel]

Dollars to donuts it is a problem with partial shoulder collapse during bullet seating and/or crimping!

If you are crimping on purpose, you have to trim all your cases to the same length.

If you are not crimping on purpose, you have your seating die screwed in too far and are crimping anyway on some of the longer cases.
That causes a partial shoulder collapse you can't see, and will lock an AR up tighter then a gnats patootie!

You can't see it, so to find out, get a Black Magic Marker.
Now "color" one of the offending rounds and try to chamber it.

Where it comes out brass & shiny is the problem.

rcmodel

 

[amlevin]

I had the same issue some brass that was too long. I merely trimmed it and no more problems.

If your sizing die is set to contact the shell plate when fully at the top of stroke there should be no issue with the die. Some die mfr's suggest an additional 1/4 turn in from "just contacting" taking into consideration the extra effort to size a bottle-necked case and any press "yield".

 

[Lariatbob]

Alright. Got my case gauge and full length dies today. Did the old bullet puller on 100 rounds that 1)measured bad at base and 2) would stick in chamber at base.
Pulled the bullets, emptied the powder. Lubed and re-sized using the full length dies, checked with the case gauge. Each and everyone was good. Re-charged with powder and seated bullets. Checked again in rifle. Each one fed, seated, allowed bolt to lock and unlock/eject just perfectly.

This problem is solved. Thanks again for all of your suggestions and wisdom. Good to go until the next demon creeps up.

Thanks again
LariatBob

 

[uneasy_rider]

One thing I have learned on this forum is that for any given problem, about a dozen people will give you some obscure, unlikely reason why you have the problem. And nine times out of ten, they are wrong, and your problem is simply that you didnt follow directions on setting up.

There is a lot of good information here, but unfortunately it gets mixed in with a lot of trash.

 

[lgbloader]

There is a lot of good information here, but unfortunately it gets mixed in with a lot of trash.

There's alot of that going around. More than it's fair share right here on this thread. One could even get more specific and precise...

 

[uneasy_rider]

That's what I mean. His problem was simple: he didnt set up his sizing dies according to directions.

 

[Lariatbob]

Sorry, but wrong. Like I said, all I had was the small base die which has a fixed shoulder length. :banghead:
Nothing to set up, other than the decapping pin, wrong or right. The problem was, I didn't have the correct dies to allow me to size further down the base.
Either way, it's ok now.

 

[strat81]

Sorry, but wrong. Like I said, all I had was the small base die which has a fixed shoulder length.
Nothing to set up, other than the decapping pin, wrong or right. The problem was, I didn't have the correct dies to allow me to size further down the base.

A full length sizing die can be adjusted by screwing it in and out of the press. I.e., adjusting its distance from the top of the shellholder.

What are you going to do with those small base dies? Is it an RCBS X-die?

 

[243winxb]

More than it's fair share right here on this thread. One could even get more specific and precise...

Please point out the incorrect information so we can all learn, thank you.

 

[uneasy_rider]

Nothing really incorrect was said. Most of the suggestions people made were right, they just were the wrong answers for the particular problem.

The problem was, I didn't have the correct dies to allow me to size further down the base.

I think you fixed your problem, but I am not sure you know why you fixed it. Small base dies will size as far down, or farther, than full length dies. I think you fixed this problem by screwing your die in further, whether you know it or not. The shoulder length is, I believe, a constant whether you are using full length dies or small base dies.

 

[Johnny Guest]

This problem is solved. Thanks again for all of your suggestions and wisdom. Good to go until the next demon creeps up.

Very good. Thread originator's primary question has been answered and his problem solved. He is happy.

It matters not that there was a little confusion during the discussion. There is NO profit whatever in assigning blame for the misunderstanding.

This is a good place to end this thread.

Johnny

 

[uneasy_rider]

Nobody's trying to blame anyone. We all want to be able to solve reloading problems as they come up. This problem is solved, but its important to understand how it got solved, so the same solution can be used i the future. I didn't mean any of my comments in a negative way. If the original poster leaves thinking the small base dies are what solved his problem, then no lessons were learned, and he in fact has now learned something that is incorrect.

 

[lgbloader]

Uneasy,

If you didn't mean any comments to be negative, why in the world would you post this?

There is a lot of good information here, but unfortunately it gets mixed in with a lot of trash.

Your basically insulting alot of people and that is very negative, don't you think? People skills need a bit of honing, Mate.

By the way, 243win, I think you misunderstood my post. This post should clear up what I meant more clearly.

Cheers...