What is annealing?
.223 Component Suggestions
- Thread starter Cokeman
- Start date
Which types of dies do I need for ARs? I was looking at these.
https://www.rcbs.com/dies-and-shell...oup-a---popular-rifle-cartridges/1000052.html
https://www.rcbs.com/dies-and-shell...taper-crimp-die-set---ar-series/16-11107.html
https://www.rcbs.com/dies-and-shell...oup-a---popular-rifle-cartridges/1000052.html
https://www.rcbs.com/dies-and-shell...taper-crimp-die-set---ar-series/16-11107.html
ArchAngelCD
Member.
I charge 25.0gr H335 under a 55gr bullet with an OAL of 2.235". That works well for me, it might for you.also...
horsemen61
Member
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69 grain Sierra Matchking gets mentioned an awful lot in these kinds of threads for good reason Good Luck in your new adventure with reloading a bottleneck remember no such thing as a dumb question ask about anything your not sure about here in regards to reloading I hope you find a very accurate load for your rifle
JEBruns
Member
It is the heating up of the bottle neck end of the brass so that the brass is more malleable. Otherwise, they can become brittle over repeated firings and crack. I use this machine for it, but it can be done manually as well. There are several videos on YT about it:
JEBruns
Member
I tried both of those, and ended up liking the Small Base set better. I am using them in a Dillon 1100 loader. I use the Lee Factory Crimp die also. So I use the RCBS one to seat but not crimp, and finish with the Lee.
And another thought. If you are using a loader with a powder drop, some powders do not flow well through them. Varget is a very good powder, but is a stick powder that does not flow well through a powder drop, for example.
JEBruns
Member
Thanks much for the advice. Just looked at my notes. Using that recipe with RMR Horn bulk 55gr FMJ's and Horn 55gr SP produced groups of over an inch at 50yds.
If inexpensive blammo is what you’re starting with, Berrys make a cheap 55 FMJ. Shooter’s World Tac Rifle or AR Plus. Ramshot XTerminator for powder. Lots of powders to choose. Any small rifle primer will work fine.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....-grain-fmj-boat-tail-with-cannelure-250-count
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....-grain-fmj-boat-tail-with-cannelure-250-count
Blue68f100
Member
For general blasting cheap ammo I use CF223 powder and cheap Hornady 55gr bullets, OAL at 2.205-2.210. All my brass is LC sorted by year. 27.7gr has given me 1 moa groups. These shoot good with most any 1:9 or 1:10 twist barrel.
Your barrel twist has a lot to do on how well a bullet will shoot. I had a 1:8 Wieldy chamber that would not shoot anything accurately unless the bullet weight was > 62 gr. With the 69 gr SMK I was getting 1/2 moa at 100 yrds. With 55gr I was lucky to get 2 moa.
Your barrel twist has a lot to do on how well a bullet will shoot. I had a 1:8 Wieldy chamber that would not shoot anything accurately unless the bullet weight was > 62 gr. With the 69 gr SMK I was getting 1/2 moa at 100 yrds. With 55gr I was lucky to get 2 moa.
Varminterror
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Annealing isn’t something you really need to worry with at this point. Annealing is heating the case necks to stress relieve the brass back to a more uniform condition. For anything you’re doing with an AR, annealing simply is not a critical step. Headstamp sort your brass, start with new brass, and sort by firing count. If one piece seems to seat harder than others, set it aside and shoot it for practice but not critical groups. The fact you do not anneal is NOT standing between you and sub-MOA accuracy.
The choice to not shoot Sierra Matchkings is also NOT standing between you and sub-MOA accuracy in 223/5.56, even in an AR. 73 and 75 ELD’s (and their former name, the A-Max) have shot sub-MOA in dozens of the rifles I have built, and I have sent cheap 50grn Vmax’s over a generic charge of 27.3grn Varget into sub-MOA groups from literally hundreds of AR barrels (dirt cheap and sufficiently effective 0-500/600yrd load). I’ve shot a lot of different bullets from several brands into sub-MOA groups.
Specifically for H335, I had a client commission a Coyote calling AR a handful of years ago, who also wanted primary bullet testing done, using his provided CCI 450’s, FC brass, and H335 - because he had heavy inventory of these. I tested 50, 53, and 55 Vmax’s, 50 NBT’s, 55 CT BST’s, 60 Partitions, 69 and 77 SMK’s, and 75 Amax/ELD’s. Using a generic, arbitrarily chosen ~3/4 of max charge weight of H335, all but the 60 Partition and the 75 Amax held 4 shots under 1moa - and reworking the Partition load (seating depth) took it down sub-MOA too. I loaded some 73 ELD’s over H335 for my 20” rifle two years ago just as another option instead of eating up my Varget stores, and held sub-MOA out to 600yrds (farthest I shot it). It’s just not that much to ask of a well built AR to shoot sub-MOA.
“Small base dies” like that RCBS AR series set have tighter dimensional standards for the body of the case. Not a bad idea for anyone reloading for AR’s, as there is little to no little consequence if you have it but don’t need them, but avoids the negative consequence of failed feeding if you don’t have it and end up needing it. Some brands make all of their 223/5.56 dies to small base spec - Lee and Dillon for example. So it’s not a wrong choice to pick the Small Base AR series dies, but it MIGHT be a wrong choice to get the other, standard die set. This choice also won’t stand between you and sub-MOA accuracy, as the only difference will be potential for over-dimension case bodies from chambering smoothly, failing to close into battery. For the price of each set, I’d get the small base dies and never look back.
JEBruns
Member
I'd not recommend 75gr ELD-M's for an AR. The COL on those makes them too long to fit in an AR mag.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Has your gun ever done better with factory match ammo?
2ndtimer
Member
Hmmm. I see where they have Hornady 62 gr FMJ, and Hornady 55 gr HPBT with cannelure, but I don’t see any Hornady 62 gr HPBT with cannelure. I emailed Hornady several weeks ago and was informed that they are not in production at this time, and no immediate plans to resume production.
Maybe I should order 500 of each and see which one shoots better. (My bet is that neither one will match the 62 gr BTHP…). But then again, American Reloading does have that 30% off projectiles code at the moment, so might be worth a try.
Definitely correct on the 62 Gr FMJ, but you stand a good chance of matching it with the 55 Gr HPBT.......
These 52 Gr FB HPs are cheap, and almost have to shoot pretty well.
kmw1954
Member
but I don’t see any Hornady 62 gr HPBT with cannelure. I emailed Hornady several weeks ago and was informed that they are not in production at this time, and no immediate plans to resume production.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....dia-69-grain-boat-tail-hollow-point-500-count
I have to wonder if these are not the same bullet. I have used the 62gr HP and the only place I have been able to find them is there at Mid-South and had made mention a few times that I believed Hornady was making them just for Mid-South. Even in the Hornady load manuals they provide no mention of either of those 62gr HP bullets with those part numbers.
Sorry just noticed this listing is for the 69gr. yet when I looked Friday they had both the 62gr FMJ and the 62gr HP on their website.
JEBruns
Member
I can get nice sub-MOA groups at 100yds with it, but it's picky on ammo. Likes 52gr SMK's and CFE223 for that.
alsaqr
Member
Virtually all my .223/5.56mm reloads are fired in bolt action rifles having slow rifling twist rates. My Remington 700 rifle makes 1/2-3/4" five shot groups using 53 or 55 grain Barnes TSX bullets or the 55 grain Sierra at 125 yards when i'm having a good day. That rifle won't stabilize the 62 grain Barnes TSX. Two other rifles, a CZ and a Sako, make 1" five shot groups at 125 yards.
My AR 15 rifles fire only military 55 and 62 grain ammo from my stash. An AR is great for generating once fired cases.
My AR 15 rifles fire only military 55 and 62 grain ammo from my stash. An AR is great for generating once fired cases.
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All depends on your accuracy requirements. If you're happy with a 1.5 MOA load, your options open up. I have various combinations of powder and bullets that meet that requirement. H335 and Hornady 55 grain FMJ, TAC and Hornady FMJ, TAC and Hornady 55 grain soft point, Shooter's World Tactical Rifle and RMR 69 grain hollow point boat tail, Shooters World AR Plus and Hornady 55 Grain FMJ (barely 1.5 MOA, but still there). I ended up with a lot of Hornady 55 grain FMJ loads because those bullets were available when nothing else was in stock. If you want sub MOA loads, you end up with a different and much smaller list of combinations. I bought budget rifles, so was happier than I should have been when I was able to better 1.5 MOA with any regularity.
BushMaster-15
member
Everyone's weapons are different including mine . I also have 1:7 twist although 20" length and 52-75 grain are near one ragged hole , seems MY Rifles have powder preferences over projectile weight . Oddly enough one of MY best grouping powders is still Bl C-2 and on sale a few months back was a smidge over $200 for 8 lb. . Ammo PREP is still KEY in MY weapons . At a 100 yd. just about any decent 5.56 powder should be able to hold MOA .
ArchAngelCD
Member.
While I use H335 for my AR style rifles like I said above I do have a Howa 1500 bolt action rifle in .223.
I have a target load that will do sub 1/2 MOA groups @100 yards and under 3/4 MOA @200 yards.
That load uses a Sierra 55gr BTHP bullet #1390 over 25.0gr Varget with a CCI-400 primer. The OAL is 2.255".
AV is 2861 fps and the ES is 19.1 fps.
Upping the charge to 26.0gr generates an AV of 2965 fps (but not as accurate)
I have a target load that will do sub 1/2 MOA groups @100 yards and under 3/4 MOA @200 yards.
That load uses a Sierra 55gr BTHP bullet #1390 over 25.0gr Varget with a CCI-400 primer. The OAL is 2.255".
AV is 2861 fps and the ES is 19.1 fps.
Upping the charge to 26.0gr generates an AV of 2965 fps (but not as accurate)
Varminterror
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….well aware, for a couple of decades…
But when you want to shoot 600+ yards, the 75’s have been hard to beat for their price/performance ratio. Notch out the nose of a mag, give yourself room for ~3-5 rounds of over-length A-max/ELD’s, and life gets pretty interesting.
JEBruns
Member
I mentioned that for the OP's benefit, since he's new to this.
Starting out I got all Lee equipment. Lee 223 dies, Lock Stud trimmer and 223 guide rod, Quick Trim press mounted trimmer (hand powered) etc. I use the Quick Trim on 30-30 cases, but run everything else on the lock stud trimmer and an electric drill. It consistently trims cases to 1.7495”-1.7505”. I replaced the Lee deburring tool with a Lyman version, but the Lee one works, but I think I pushed it too hard by deburring in my drill with the case in the lock stud.
Cheesemaker
Member
Are you planning to shoot these in an AR platform? If so, be aware that CCI 400 may not be the right choice for primers. CCI & Winchester make #41 primers specifically for ARs.
Some folks may say it makes no difference, some say it does. Do your research and understand the difference and make up your own mind.
Now, if you plan to shoot these in a bolt gun - carry on.
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