hawkeye10
Member
I know the 223 ammo is more accurate than 7.62X39 ammo. The question I have is it the ammo or is it the gun? I kinda want an AK because my friend has several AR's but no AK's. Can't let him out shoot me. 
Don
Don
223 versus 7.62X39 ammo???
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Konstantin835
Member
ARs are undisputedly more accurate than AKs but AKs are sometimes made out to be so inaccurate they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from inside. While not as accurate as an AR a decent AK should be able to do 3 or 4 MOA. As for the ammo, the .223 is probably a tiny bit more inherently accurate than the 7.62x39 if fired out of equally accurate platforms but the problem with the 7.62x39 is bullet drop is much greater than .223, making it harder to be accurate with at longer ranges. And the .223 is more common is commercial target loads.
Tough question, both are great but for entirely different reasons. The 223 doesn't pack as much of a punch and the penetration isn't as good as the 7.62 either, however, it does tumble when it enters the flesh causing more damage IMO than a 7.62. So unless you plan on shooting through brick walls or body armor... I would definitely go with the 223 for accuracy and damage against potential targets. Now for the gun....the AR is always going to be more accurate, at least in my experience.
It's not the ammo, it's the gun. Quality 7.62x39 ammo out of a bolt gun like a Ruger 77, or CZ 527 will shoot just as well as .223 versions of the same gun at 100yds. There is however, a lot more choices for good .223 ammo than 7.62x39.
FlyinBryan
Member
then dont get an ak because the average ar is going to convincingly beat the average ak just about everytime when it comes to accuracy.
If your friend has several AR's he is probably had a chance to get good at shooting them. It would be tough to go cold with an AK and shoot against somebody with experience with an AR especially given the difference in the calibers. You would be behind the eight ball off the get go. If you commit to shooting an AK you can keep up with the average AR shooter pretty easy at closer ranges (100yds and under). As the distance increases the AR round starts to show its accuracy. I have compared the two platforms in identical calibers with identical ammunition and could not decipher a difference. That being said I have many thousands more rounds shooting an AK over my AR's.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
The Ak is designed for reliability, the AR is designed for accuracy. Play to its strengths and you can outshoot your friend with "several" Ar's.
1. Shoot standing or better yet on the move. The slight accuracy differences in the AR will be completely written off.
2. Shoot for score immediately when the guns come out of the bags, don't let your buddy find his zero. People with "several" AR's don't usually shoot all of them. Chances are he is going to show up with a 20 inch bull barrel AR he doesn't shoot that often and the scope will not be zero'd. You can spank the bejesus out of him with Irons as he is shooting into the dirt. Once he has zero'd his scope, and settled into his shooting rest you won't beat him.
3. Shoot real close and remember to account for the height of your sights above the target. His first shot with an AR at 7 yds. will probably be 4 inches low.
1. Shoot standing or better yet on the move. The slight accuracy differences in the AR will be completely written off.
2. Shoot for score immediately when the guns come out of the bags, don't let your buddy find his zero. People with "several" AR's don't usually shoot all of them. Chances are he is going to show up with a 20 inch bull barrel AR he doesn't shoot that often and the scope will not be zero'd. You can spank the bejesus out of him with Irons as he is shooting into the dirt. Once he has zero'd his scope, and settled into his shooting rest you won't beat him.
3. Shoot real close and remember to account for the height of your sights above the target. His first shot with an AR at 7 yds. will probably be 4 inches low.
I agree
Jenrick
Member
Largely it's a combination of the two. AK's aren't commonly built with the goal of shooting 1-2 MOA with factory ammunition. People will raise a hue and cry if there box stock AR won't do 2-3 MOA with factory ammunition. Imported surplus military ammunition is the same for both platforms, usually 3-6 MOA ammo. However we don't tend to shoot surplus 5.56 ammo here, and factory loadings are usually more accurate.
Particular AK's when fed good commercial ammunition are quiet accurate, it's just a matter of finding one. Also as noted the 5.45x39 cartridge is no slouch. I routinely use my bulgarian AK-74 with irons to shoot the carbine qualification course clean when I teach. That tends to quiet everyone down about how "hard" the qualification course is.
-Jenrick
Particular AK's when fed good commercial ammunition are quiet accurate, it's just a matter of finding one. Also as noted the 5.45x39 cartridge is no slouch. I routinely use my bulgarian AK-74 with irons to shoot the carbine qualification course clean when I teach. That tends to quiet everyone down about how "hard" the qualification course is.
-Jenrick
henschman
Member
There is nothing about the case or bullet specifications that would make either round more accurate. Where the differences come in are in how the ammo is made and what rifles it is being shot out of.
Russian mass-produced steel case military grade ammo is going to be less accurate than hand-loaded or match-grade ammo, in either caliber. This is just because of the quality control in the production and assembly of the cartridge components. However, there is a lot more high-quality ammo available for .223 than for 7.62x39. Almost all 7.62x39 you see is steel case com-bloc surplus. They make steel case Russian .223 as well, but it is less commonly used because many AR's will choke on it, while AK's eat the stuff like candy.
Also, the AR is a more inherently accurate design than the AK. This is partly due to the AR's separate upper receiver design, partly because it has less reciprocating mass, and partly because of tighter tolerances.
Russian mass-produced steel case military grade ammo is going to be less accurate than hand-loaded or match-grade ammo, in either caliber. This is just because of the quality control in the production and assembly of the cartridge components. However, there is a lot more high-quality ammo available for .223 than for 7.62x39. Almost all 7.62x39 you see is steel case com-bloc surplus. They make steel case Russian .223 as well, but it is less commonly used because many AR's will choke on it, while AK's eat the stuff like candy.
Also, the AR is a more inherently accurate design than the AK. This is partly due to the AR's separate upper receiver design, partly because it has less reciprocating mass, and partly because of tighter tolerances.
AK's were not built to shoot dimes at 300 meters, they were built to shoot humans and it didn't matter where it hit you, the 7.62 will do terrible damage either it hit your head or your foot.
hats off to those AK's that does shoot dimes but the glory should go to the shooter and the one that set up that AK.
hats off to those AK's that does shoot dimes but the glory should go to the shooter and the one that set up that AK.
JustinJ
Member
My Russian Arsenal AK74 shoots mulsurp 7N6 in sub 2" groups all day. I'd say its quite close in accuracy, if not equal to, a standard Colt M4 from the factory with standard issue ammo. Given the range of both rounds any accuracy difference that may exist between the two has no real world application anyways.
Short and fat vs long and skinny, but the biggest difference is bullet weight and the differences there.
I saw a cool video the other day where folks were shooting a 55 Gal drum full of water with various calibers. The .223 skipped right through while the 7.62 really made the drum jump. The .338 was impressive. The .50 Cal was awesome. Shooting the drum with a car door in front of it full auto with an AK was impressive.
I saw a cool video the other day where folks were shooting a 55 Gal drum full of water with various calibers. The .223 skipped right through while the 7.62 really made the drum jump. The .338 was impressive. The .50 Cal was awesome. Shooting the drum with a car door in front of it full auto with an AK was impressive.
SwissArmyDad
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There's a gentleman on this board that has a converted saiga in .308Win that IIRC has been able shoot 1-2" @ 100 yards pretty consistantly.
Very good looking gun, too.
I'll try to find a link to his setup. Might be worth your while to add it to your "consideration list".
Very good looking gun, too.
I'll try to find a link to his setup. Might be worth your while to add it to your "consideration list".
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sansone
Member
I agree..
I'm shooting a x39 AR at 100-150yds and really enjoying the caliber and rifle.
Beyond 150yds bullet drop would become an issue, I use a different rifle for that range
mortablunt
Member
I think a lot of you guys need to do some research about what the latest generation of 7.62x39 guns can do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-103 The accuracy of new and Russian built AK 7.62 guns is pretty dang good. I remember seeing a review from Cruffler about the AK-103, and according to them, it got to about 1MoA.
The 7.62 has the edge in brute force killing power and penetration. The only guaranteed way to make a bigger hole in someone to kill them more quickly is to use a bigger round. The 5.56 has issues with longer range lethality, especially from the shorter barrel guns that are ever so popular these days.
The 7.62 has the edge in brute force killing power and penetration. The only guaranteed way to make a bigger hole in someone to kill them more quickly is to use a bigger round. The 5.56 has issues with longer range lethality, especially from the shorter barrel guns that are ever so popular these days.
The main reason the smaller AK round is now standard is because they weigh less, cost less to make and in today's modern firefights the caliber simply is not all that important. Volume, not size. That and NATO and all. I'd love to have a 5.56 Ak if I can find one that is right, I'm looking at the Polish but they are not true Aks.
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