nettlle
Contributing Member
Have you been shot by something other than a 22? If so please wash our speculation away. Share your real life experiences and data with us.
22lr carry for defense??
- Thread starter old fart
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Styx
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I, too, had the same issue. I thought it was a normal limitation of the platform. It wasn't until a year ago that a few members mentioned theirs did not have that issue that I realized it was wasn't normal. You should send it in to Ruger to fix it.
I realize that I had installed an aftermarket Crane Pivot Pin from a laser attachment. I took the laser off but kept the old pin installed. The pin was screwed in too long, which was the cause of the cylinder locking up during rapid fire. I reckon if you over tighten stock the Crane Pivot Pin, it will cause the same issue. Once I reinstalled the stock pin and torqued it to spec, the cylinder locking when short stroking issue went away.
thank you. my only modification was to swap out the short oem grips for the longer oem ones used on the 3” lcr-x models. short-stroking remained, but geometry in my hands feels way better without badly compromising concealment. let me contact ruger…
Styx
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The only issue I see with 22lr is with re liability and penetration if barriers are between you and the threat. A revolver is perfect for when using 22lr for self-defense because if there's a dud, you can click to the next cylinder. You also get 8 rounds in many revolvers.
All the other naysayers about needing 10-30 rounds and 22lr won't stop a treat is conjecture, IMHO. If shot placement is there, it will stop a threat. That goes for any caliber. Unless you live a high-risk lifestyle where someone is determined to kill you, a 22lr would be fine. Carry what you can afford to shoot and train with reliability.
You go to any watch, knife, gaming, car, motorcycle, TV, etc. forums, and ask the regulars extreme fanboy members their opinion about what to buy. They all are going to suggest the extreme or top of the line. For example, ask about buying a 500cc motorcycle for joy riding, and they tell you you NEED a 1200cc. Ask what knife to buy, they'll tell you you NEED a $200 knife made of special steel. Ask what watch. They'll stir you towards a several thousand dollars mechanical watch. Ask what camera or PC, they'll tell you nothing else will suit your needs other than the most expensive top of the line. People on gun forums do the same thing. Live in a great neighborhood, don't sell drugs, not in a gang, don't have any contracts out for your life, don't live in bear or 4 larger legged predator country, and all you want is an affordable, reliable, low recoiling handgun to defend yourself with? Yes, of course you'll have members trying to convince you you'll die unless you have a 9mm to 10mm, 15+ rounds, 15 round spare, a semiautos instead of a revolver, so on and so forth.
All the other naysayers about needing 10-30 rounds and 22lr won't stop a treat is conjecture, IMHO. If shot placement is there, it will stop a threat. That goes for any caliber. Unless you live a high-risk lifestyle where someone is determined to kill you, a 22lr would be fine. Carry what you can afford to shoot and train with reliability.
You go to any watch, knife, gaming, car, motorcycle, TV, etc. forums, and ask the regulars extreme fanboy members their opinion about what to buy. They all are going to suggest the extreme or top of the line. For example, ask about buying a 500cc motorcycle for joy riding, and they tell you you NEED a 1200cc. Ask what knife to buy, they'll tell you you NEED a $200 knife made of special steel. Ask what watch. They'll stir you towards a several thousand dollars mechanical watch. Ask what camera or PC, they'll tell you nothing else will suit your needs other than the most expensive top of the line. People on gun forums do the same thing. Live in a great neighborhood, don't sell drugs, not in a gang, don't have any contracts out for your life, don't live in bear or 4 larger legged predator country, and all you want is an affordable, reliable, low recoiling handgun to defend yourself with? Yes, of course you'll have members trying to convince you you'll die unless you have a 9mm to 10mm, 15+ rounds, 15 round spare, a semiautos instead of a revolver, so on and so forth.
I like the car analogy. When I lived in KY I would not own a vehicle that was not 4WD. I had a 4WD Jeep or truck from the time I was 19 until I moved from KY at age 54; it doesn't usually snow that much but when it did I wasn't going to let it impede my travel.
Living in FL I drive a Mustang convertible and I'm in the right place to enjoy top down driving all year.
I like the motorcycle analogy; recently bought a Yamaha R3 (300cc) and it is often referred to as a "beginner" bike.
The Yamaha R3 has a 0-60 time on par with my Mustang Ecoboost of about 5.2 seconds.
A Yamaha R7 and a Mustang GT would be quicker than what I have but it would not make any practical difference in my normal / typical driving which consists of traffic and speed limits of 45 MPH or less. I live 10 miles from Wal-Mart and it takes me 25 minutes to get there.
I'm no more likely to "outgrow" the Yamaha R3 than I am the Mustang Ecoboost as I can't usually utilize the power I already have.
To try to tie the vehicle analogies to handguns and carrying a 22lr for SD.
As I've already posted in the thread, a 22lr is "better than nothing"; as a Smart car (tiny) or a Scooter would be better than no transportation.
The problem is 22lr does not have the same ASAP incapacitation potential as a good 9mm HP, assuming same shot(s) placement.
If attacker(s) are hit but not incapacitated before they can inflict injury or death the the defender, our little transportation ran out of gas (trying to make vehicle analogy).
Fill up the tank before you go? Yea, like pick a "decent" caliber in advance.
As with transportation, "better than nothing" is not my goal; so I'm carrying at least a good 9mm HP rather than a 22lr.
Jim Watson
Member
"Shot placement" is the universal response to any criticism of a defensive weapon less powerful than, say, a police or military sidearm.
If you are not worried that "that competition stuff will get you kilt on the street", give USPSA or IDPA a try and check your shot placement when in a hurry and maybe an awkward position.
Or budget for some serious training. Do be selective, I see a lot of adverts for training illustrated by a dozen people rowed up on a square range, overseen by an instructor and a couple of assistants.
Jeff Cooper said "You may consider a .22 for self defense when you can hit a tennis ball from anywhere on the court."
If you are not worried that "that competition stuff will get you kilt on the street", give USPSA or IDPA a try and check your shot placement when in a hurry and maybe an awkward position.
Or budget for some serious training. Do be selective, I see a lot of adverts for training illustrated by a dozen people rowed up on a square range, overseen by an instructor and a couple of assistants.
Jeff Cooper said "You may consider a .22 for self defense when you can hit a tennis ball from anywhere on the court."
Sworn officers and civilians carry firearms for the same reason: to defend themselves and others against imminent threats of death or serious bodily harm.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
From what I remember about @old fart 's postings (the OP), he has several centerfire handguns. The KelTec P17 was bought to fill the role of a plinker/small game gun, if this thread is any indicator. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/which-one.927611/
We are simply giving him the advice he asked for, "What do y'all think about the Keltec P17 as a defensive handgun?"
Of course his wife likes shooting a semi-auto .22 LR. Who doesn't? They are fun, fun, fun.
But if she is capable of shooting something with more power for defense, we're going to suggest more power. Even if it's only a .32 or .380 of some sort.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
$300.00 Walther CCP in .380 w/ soft recoil "system"
Same price, stainless slide model
"The CCP – or Concealed Carry Pistol – is the first polymer pistol with Softcoil gas technology. This technology improves the user’s experience by reducing overall felt recoil and allowing the slide to be easily manipulated regardless of hand strength." - from https://waltherarms.com/firearms/ccp/ccp-m2-380
Of course, the S&W EZs in .380 can be had for about $100 more.
Same price, stainless slide model
"The CCP – or Concealed Carry Pistol – is the first polymer pistol with Softcoil gas technology. This technology improves the user’s experience by reducing overall felt recoil and allowing the slide to be easily manipulated regardless of hand strength." - from https://waltherarms.com/firearms/ccp/ccp-m2-380
Of course, the S&W EZs in .380 can be had for about $100 more.
jar
Contributing Member
Lots a very good choices. And some pros and cons involved with each choice.
S&W 380 EZ. My brother in law loves it and has no issues with the grip safety. My sister has issues with the grip safety.
Ruger Security 380. My sister finds it the easiest to rack and likes the higher capacity.
CCP. My personal favorite of the bunch BUT reassembly, getting the piston lined up with the cylinder is too much for either sister or her husband.
Walther PK380. Was the second choice of both BIL and sister but they both had trouble adjusting to the paddle release initially. Also needing a tool to do a field strip was a negative for both of them.
Styx
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Yes, that makes perfect sense. I was mostly talking in general.
How might that be helpful?
I have noticed that too.
Often people posting "its all about shot placement" have compromised variables under their control, capacity / caliber, only to cite a variable (shot placement) that not a given and is going to be determined while fighting for their life.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
In my opinion, a 22LR will work. Especially for an experienced shooter. I would rotate my carry ammo a little more often. It sounds like your Wife would know she is not equipped to take on a street gang. She would have a gun to protect herself and get to safety. Much like myself. Pepper Gell, a couple of J-Frames. In all the years of reading these forums know one has claimed they shot anyone and they kept coming. I say if someone start receiving led to the chest and face, it’s going to change their mind. I wish my wife would at least carry a 22. I’d be happy if she would carry Pepper Gell but, I may as well talk to the wall.
22LR for a defensive carry caliber?
No doubt it might be effective. But then again, it may well not be. It's the pipsqueak of calibers. But if it's the cartridge that aging or arthritic hands can manage best, it's certainly better than harsh words or a slipjoint pocket knife.
But for my purposes 380 would be my minimum. And my EDC is 38Spl+P.
Just my 2 cents.
No doubt it might be effective. But then again, it may well not be. It's the pipsqueak of calibers. But if it's the cartridge that aging or arthritic hands can manage best, it's certainly better than harsh words or a slipjoint pocket knife.
But for my purposes 380 would be my minimum. And my EDC is 38Spl+P.
Just my 2 cents.
JERRY
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Everyone pretty much knows about the FBI Miami fiasco from the 80s. How the 38 special and 9 mm failed to immediately stop the bad guys even when they had torso hits. In fact that fiasco led to the redesign of many bullets in those calibers.
I'm just putting this out there before somebody thinks that because they carry a 9 mm instead of a 22lr that they are even partially immune from a determined bad guy. Just like the 25ACP has dropped many bad guys some of them in their tracks....
Carry what you can. Practice when you can. Train when you can. Be aware of your surroundings. Know the laws of the use of lethal force in your state. And know the limitations of not just your firearm but yourself.
I'm just putting this out there before somebody thinks that because they carry a 9 mm instead of a 22lr that they are even partially immune from a determined bad guy. Just like the 25ACP has dropped many bad guys some of them in their tracks....
Carry what you can. Practice when you can. Train when you can. Be aware of your surroundings. Know the laws of the use of lethal force in your state. And know the limitations of not just your firearm but yourself.
There is a reason that your wife loves the Kel-tec P17, it is a 22lr. In this case, assuming your wife does not have physical disabilities she would be suited to carry a different firearm. The G3C is a compact gun, and the recoil and gun flip after shooting is what she might not enjoy shooting as much as the P17. I would consider a more full size gun for her or a heavier gun to shoot in a 9mm even a .380.
The issue that many men and women find when carrying a gun is that they want to be comfortable. They want it to be small, light as a feather, with the recoil of a marshmallow and the bore size of a cannonball with a 100 round magazine. For her a more full size type firearm might be better suited. You won't know until she tries it. My wife bought a 642 lightweight against my wishes, she shot it once and never again. Recoil on that gun is more painful that my 686 with full loads that I carry. Her father gave her a Rossi 351 5 shot revolver all steel. She shot it and loved it because it was a heavier gun and recoil was not painful.
She finally followed my advice and bought a semi-auto, she chose the Walther PPQ. The older version where the magazine release is on the trigger guard. She chose it because of the ergonomic fit with her hand and also chose to buy a slip on rubber grip cover, further cushion and comfort which she enjoys. Maybe you could consider buying a slip on cover for the G3C and see it if makes a difference for her.
As much as I hate gun shows nowadays, I would recommend you take her to one and let her select a gun that she would be more fitting for her. Remind her that the lighter the gun is, the more painful it is to shoot and not as accurate due to recoil, unless she is willing to spend the time practicing.
I personally am ok if my wife wanted to carry a 22lr now because she is suffering from debilitating arthritis throughout her body but the ammo would be top tier ammo like eley, rws, or lapua. But before she would decide on 22lr I would recommend to her a 22 magnum. The 22 magnum offers about 60% more power and I would recommend the Walther WMR as it holds 15 rounds in the magazine and has the same ergonomic grip design as the Walther PPQ.
Jim Watson
Member
More loads
S&W M&P .22 Compact 3.6" barrel
CCI MiniMag Hollow Point 966 fps 74 ft lb
Federal Punch flat point 1153 fps 85 ft lb
Winchester Silvertip 1020 fps 85 ft lb
CCI Stanger 1182 fps 99 ftlb. FTF
The Stanger - cutesy labeled Stinger - is a hot item, most power, bright flash, but unfortunately the second round failed to feed when the first fired. The rest of the string and another magazine fed ok, a magazine worth fed in another gun. The question is, how many shots would it take to get that first malfunction out of my mind, considering that M&P is 100% with lots of MiniMag? I'll shoot some in the Pathfinder to see if it has any oddities for revolvers.
No Uppercut at Target Sports, Midway, or local stores, but I'll keep my eyes open.
Previous trials.
S&W M&P .22 Compact 3.6" barrel
CCI MiniMag Hollow Point 966 fps 74 ft lb
Federal Punch flat point 1153 fps 85 ft lb
Winchester Silvertip 1020 fps 85 ft lb
CCI Stanger 1182 fps 99 ftlb. FTF
The Stanger - cutesy labeled Stinger - is a hot item, most power, bright flash, but unfortunately the second round failed to feed when the first fired. The rest of the string and another magazine fed ok, a magazine worth fed in another gun. The question is, how many shots would it take to get that first malfunction out of my mind, considering that M&P is 100% with lots of MiniMag? I'll shoot some in the Pathfinder to see if it has any oddities for revolvers.
No Uppercut at Target Sports, Midway, or local stores, but I'll keep my eyes open.
Previous trials.
22lr carry for defense??
Decades ago I was accidentally shot in the hand with a 22 hollow point. I will agree that whatever the bad guys intentions were will definitely be changed if shot with a 22 LR hollow point. That is pure unwarranted speculation and fantasy. A lot of people have been shot multiple times with...
www.thehighroad.org
DT Guy
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"Gun people" (and I'm one) tend to dig into the minutia and details of bullet design, caliber selection and gun features. But in reality, on a continuum of handgun effectiveness, it's something like this:
No Gun-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------22,32,380,.38,9,.357,.44M.
So while caliber is important (I don't carry a .22 for defense) it's not nearly as important as everything else you're doing to keep yourself safe.
Larry
No Gun-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------22,32,380,.38,9,.357,.44M.
So while caliber is important (I don't carry a .22 for defense) it's not nearly as important as everything else you're doing to keep yourself safe.
Larry
Jim Watson
Member
Next session, multiple malfunctions with Stangers in auto, hard extraction in revolver. Fail.
Will shoot the rest of the Punch and Silvertip for function. Still awaiting Uppercut.
.308 Norma
Member
"Everything else" you're doing to keep yourself safe doesn't seem to be as "important" for discussions on internet message forums.
Creaky_Old_Cop
member
I always advocate carrying a full sized fighting handgun in an effective caliber. Almost three decades as a cop, trainer at two academies, and thirty years as a competitive shooter....until you can't. The advantage, for your wife, seems to be a pistol she is willing to carry, willing to shoot, and doesn't cause her pain. No one will really argue that a 22lr, even in it's most "effective" loading is not ideal for defensive use. That said, for some it IS effective for self defense because they CAN employ it more effectively than a larger caliber. If she can empty a whole swarm of those angry little bees into an aggressor to stop an attack, create separation, break contact and get away....then, they ARE as effective as a larger caliber. It's a strange Catch 22 (pun intended), but there ya have it.
Insignificant bill
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Another 650 rounds of Federal 22lr
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