.22LR or .25 ACP?

[toivo]

Stingers in a rifle are rated @1640 fps, Velocitors are rated @1435 fps and the Mini Mags are rated @1260 fps. Winchester and Remington have similar loads too. Yes I know you lose a lot in a short barrel but most .25 Auto ammo is rated no higher than 900 fps so I think even when shot from a short barrel the .22R might have the edge on velocity.

Without real numbers, your final claim is impossible to verify, but I would guess the other way. You're talking the difference between a 20" to 24" barrel and a 2.5" barrel. That's a huge difference.

I don't know of any rifles chambered for .25 ACP. It was designed to be shot in short barrels, and that's where those chrono numbers come from. On the other hand, .22 rimfire is primarily a rifle round and its optimum burn time is achieved in an 18" to 20" barrel. Look at how much unburned powder residue you get from .22 rimfire even in a 5" or 6" handgun. That's lost energy right there.

 

[lloveless]

I have used the 22 lr in an Iver Johnson pt-22 (tph clone)for ccw when I didn't have the money to buy something larger. I no longer have it, but would use it again under certain circumstances. I am not convinced that the .25 is all that more reliable in spite of the oft repeated phrases confirming "centerfire reliablity". I'll bet those Baby Brownings have a rail bite to them that my pt-22 didn't have! Again the Mossad picked the .22 lr for a reason.
ll

 

[doc2rn]

I was looking at the 9 shot Ruger LCR in .22lr yesterday. Of the two I would definately pick the .22lr round. If the LCR ever comes out in .22 WMR I am gonna jump in that camp, and switch off of my S&W 651.

I think I would have to chose by platform rather than by caliber.

 

[usp9]

Again the Mossad picked the .22 lr for a reason.

Yes, it was quiet. If they had a quiet .45, they'd have used it, you can bet.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

that

 

[Grmlin]

Between my Berretta bobcat in 25 and my snunie S&W 22 revolver, the 22 is the winner. The little 25 is about the most inacurate thing there is, it is truely a gut gun.

 

[The Bushmaster]

ArchangelCD... I have a little FIE .25 ACP that I use as a pocket pistol. Even though the .22LR is toted to be the better choice I have chosen the .25 ACP This FIE has never failed to go Bang. With the much improved ammunition that is available on the market the .25 ACP will stand up against the .22s just fine. My ammunition of choice (not cheap) Fiocchi .25 35 grain XTP/HP.

Now you can have the mods close this down.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

I'm not sure that's true. Stingers in a rifle are rated @1640 fps, Velocitors are rated @1435 fps and the Mini Mags are rated @1260 fps. Winchester and Remington have similar loads too. Yes I know you lose a lot in a short barrel but most .25 Auto ammo is rated no higher than 900 fps so I think even when shot from a short barrel the .22R might have the edge on velocity.

CCI Stinger, when fired from a 2.4" bbl Beretta 21A averaged 987 fps. In my tests it did not expand and penetrated less than 12".

See "Terminal Performance of MPB Quik-Shok, CCI Stinger and Remington Viper .22 Long Rifle Ammunition when fired from a Beretta Model 21A Handgun into Standard Ordnance Gelatin" at - http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs27.htm

 

[lloveless]

USP9 the Mossad used .22 lr for reasons other than how quiet it is. There are pistols with silencers in 9 mm and .45. The .22 lr is ubiquitous, the guns are inexpensive, and therefore disposable.
ll

 

[MCgunner]

I don't know of any rifles chambered for .25 ACP. It was designed to be shot in short barrels, and that's where those chrono numbers come from. On the other hand, .22 rimfire is primarily a rifle round and its optimum burn time is achieved in an 18" to 20" barrel. Look at how much unburned powder residue you get from .22 rimfire even in a 5" or 6" handgun. That's lost energy right there.

I got just under 800 fps from CCI Mini mag and Federal bulk pack from a 1 5/8" NAA mini revolver. I got just over 800 and a lot more noise from the Stingers. I get about 1150 fps from a CCI Maximag hollow point in my 2" Black Widow.

Still, even the magnum isn't a real power house. It makes about 100 ft lbs. To put in perspective, the .32ACP runs around 120 ft lbs and my .380s run about 190 ft lbs. But, when small is all you can do, the little Black Widow is 3.5" at 25 yards accurate and really light and compact, can hide about anywhere, could even hide wearing a bathing suit, though that's not a real pretty picture. Actually, I prefer the .22 mag, personally, to a .32. The magnum has excessive penetration which is a good thing. This is something I couldn't brag about with .22LR or .25ACP.

 

[MedWheeler]

I have no qualms with carrying either in a reliable platform, and I've never had a FTF in any rimfire gun, including my 25+ - year-old Jennings J-22, with CCI MiniMags (the round most-often fired by me in .22.) Though I don't carry a .22 for defense simply because I have other options available, I'll never disparage anyone who does, nor will I disparage the person who carries a .25 auto. There are numerous people who come on here and tell us they "know a guy who knows a guy who shot a guy (or was the guy shot") with one and lived, but my money says that the person shot, even if they walked two miles uphill in the snow to reach the ER, still stopped what they were doing that got 'em shot in the first place. That's what's important to me.
Because of the reliability I personally have experienced with my rimfire guns with CCI MiniMags (never had a misfire with bulk stuff, either, but some of it doesn't cycle some of my guns), I'd probably lean toward the .22 if I owned neither and was shopping for a gun on one of the calibers.

That being said, I do own "defense-sized" .22 pistols (the aforementioned J-22, and a Taurus PT-22) so, if I was to shop for another gun in one of these calibers, it would probably be in .25, just because I don't have one yet.

 

[Glock19Fan]

Personally I own both and prefer the .25ACP. It has always been more reliable in my experiences, shoots a heavier bullet at the same velocity, and has a jacketed bullet to help with bone penetration.

With that said, a P32 goes everywhere I do (at minimum).

 

[crstrode]

.25 ACP is ballistically superior to 22LR

All over the "Interweb" you will find folks regurgitating the myth that a 22LR is equal or greater than the 25ACP in terms of muzzle energy.

What a lot of hooey!

This is most likely due to fact that most 22LR ballistics data is based upon much much longer barrels than found in pocket pistols. North American Arms has some good actual performance data on the 22LR from a short barrel. Here is the link: http://northamericanarms.com/ballistics

The fact is that the 25 ACP packs 25% more poop merely because the standard 50 grain bullet is 25% larger than the typical 40 grain 22LR bullet. Both cartridges leave the end of the same length barrel at about the same velocity. Typically the 22LR is actually lower than the typical 25ACP.

Comparing a 50 grain 25ACP bullet to a 40 grain 22LR bullet at 750 fps muzzle velocity shows 62.4 vs 49.9 foot pounds.

(Mass in grains times Velocity in feet per second squared divided by 450400 = foot pounds energy)

 

[browningguy]

I chose .25's for my pocket pistols, Beretta 21 and Baby Browning, they both shoot the 35 gr. JHP's very well and you get just a little more velocity out of them.

 

[481]

I think that the difference in each cartridge's KE or momentum is so small as to be inconsequential. The .25ACP, for the fact that it is a centerfire cartridge that offers more a reliable ignition source, would be my choice.

 

[TennJed]

I would prefer a 8 round 22lr revolver.

 

[Hunter2011]

Why should a FTF in a .22 pistol really be so much of a problem that it makes you choose a .25 rather? I had one this past weekend. But it was with very old ammo I have never used up in my rifle because of their poor accuracy. Point is with CCi Mini Mags I have never ever experienched even one FTF. And even if you do experience a FTF you just chamber the next round. This does not take so much more time than firing another shot from a revolver that had a FTF, not? But it is just my oppinion.
I will take the .22LR between the two, simply because you do get better, bigger and more accurate pistols in .22LR than in .25. The .25 pistols are too small for me to shoot accurately with consistantly.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Why should a FTF in a .22 pistol really be so much of a problem that it makes you choose a .25 rather?

It depends on whether or not the pistol has an extractor. Berettas and Taurus' don't. The firing pin can swage the rim of a misfired case to the barrel breech, requiring a tool to pry it from the chamber. My Beretta 21A was one such pistol.

Other auto pistols with an extractor don't reliably extract a misfired cartridge from the chamber. With these pistols the blowback operation works in synergy with the extractor to extract the .22 LR case. When there's a misfire the extractor can slip off the rim when the slide is manually retracted.

Neither scenario is good for a defense pistol.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Yes, it was quiet. If they had a quiet .45, they'd have used it, you can bet.

A salient point would be that the Israelis had a choice of both of these calibers in essentially the same platform and clearly and famously chose the .22.

 

[suemarkp]

I'd vote for the 22LR. Way more choice of ammo and way cheaper. I've never had a misfire in 22LR, but I've only fired about 1000 rounds of it. I don't buy the huge bulk packs or Remington golden bullets. You could easily afford to buy a replacement box of 22LR every year for the cost of one box of 25 ACP.

If you want a heavy bullet in 22LR, there's the 60gr subsonic round from Aguila. This will probably come out tumbling, but at short range with a non-expanding bullet that may be a good thing. I wish there was a bullet a bit heavier than 40gr that would stabilize in most 22LR's (there used to be some 42gr silhouette loads). But you have a wide range of weights and velocities to choose from in 22LR.

Even if you reload, there's only so much choice of bullet profiles and weights in 25 ACP. 25 Auto is pretty much limited to semi autos, so you have a limited range of velocity-weight to say within. A 25 ACP wadcutter may be the most effective, but I don't think you'll find too many guns in 25 ACP that will feed those if you could make the bullet. You can shave the lead nose on a 22LR to make a flat point.

Energy doesn't really matter. If it penetrates a person, that is sufficient (and has more to do with momentum and frontal area than energy). Neither is probably going to reliably expand so a caliber sized hole is what you get, with a flat nose being more effective than round.

 

[golden]

25ACP except......

In a really small pistol, like the COLT .25ACP or BERETTA Bobcat or Jetfire, I would go for the .25ACP for a defense pistol. In this size gun, reliability is everything and the .25ACP is much more reliable.
The .25ACP is a miniture centerfire round sharing many of the features of the 9m.m. and .45ACP. It is long proven for reliablity.
The .22lr rimfire rounds are based on Civil War error technology. That is why the bullets feel greasy, as they use external lube. Ever notice how dirty they can get if kept in a pocket?

I though so highly of the BERETTA, I bought one for myself and one for my wife.
I read that one blogger does not like these pistols because they lack an extractor. My advise is to shoot them. They are more reliable than 90% of the competing pistols which have extractors.

My experience with several brands of micro pistols is that they are much more sensitive to gripping error and ammo problems.

However, I do not carry smaller than .32ACP normally.

That being said, in a larger gun, the .22LR can pick up some veloicty and be more useful as well as much cheaper to shoot.
I like the WALTHER P22 for this size. It is accurate and reliable with a double action trigger that makes it safe to carry. It is also big enough to hold onto properly.

good luck with your choice,

Jim

 

[Hunter2011]

Thanks for the explanation Shawn, I get it now. I did not know this.

 

[krupparms]

I prefer the .22LR over the .25ACP mostly because of cost. Also the British Army issues this cal. for SD to soldiers stationed in N.Ireland for off duty use. The .22lr is not the best SD round. But its cheap &accurate &works even if it's old tech. I hate to bet my life on it, but have before &I am still here. I would pick the one that I was most comfortable with &was reliable &accurate. That's the right one for you. Good Luck!

 

[mljdeckard]

First of all, I wouldn't carry either of them if I had any choice at all.

.25s are tiny guns. Poor grip surface, small sight radius. They are difficult to shoot well for reasons that have nothing to do with the cartridge itself. The short barrel gives an already weak cartridge a range measured in inches.

A .22 is far from ideal as well, but you have much more selection for different guns and ammo. And in my 1911 conversion kit, I can carry 15+1, and dump them all center of mass in a couple of seconds very effectively.

 

[toivo]

I prefer the .22LR over the .25ACP mostly because of cost. Also the British Army issues this cal. for SD to soldiers stationed in N.Ireland for off duty use.

That's the first I've ever heard of this. Do you know what the issue weapon is?