38 special or .380?

[David E]

Guess it depends on how you want to count it. A 380 was issued to US Army soldiers. It wasn't meant to be a main combat weapon, but no handgun is.

I bet our boys in Iraq have/had a Beretta M-9 in their holster instead of a Colt 1903

I said a .380 wasn't ever issued as the first line of defense, (IE; a front line soldier)

I never said it wasn't issued to anyone ever.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Glad I can have both.

Me too!

I have both, shoot both, and reload for both. It's really not an "apples to apples" comparison thing and I never had any real use for .380 (preferring .32) until my Wife had so many problems finding her best personal CCL gun. I have shot and reloaded .38 for many years and tens of thousands of rounds and have more guns that chamber this cartridge than any other caliber and always thought it the best all around caliber.

Until we owned a Glock 42 and I started hand loading and maximizing/tuning the hottest/best performing round I could for my Wife's gun. Now I think it is a toss up depending on how much .38 a shooter can handle. If you can manage a .38 Special +P and get multiple, accurate hits quickly then that's the definite ticket. But even I shoot my Wife's G42 with *HOT* .380 flat nose 100 gr. bullets faster and more accurately while moving from the draw. I'll still carry an LCR or snubbie revolver when dress mandates that but in our house and in our hands I think the G42 can deliver more accurate firepower faster without giving up all that much to a .38 Special.

So at our house if it *had* to be one or the other (and it never will) I'd have to choose the .380 G42 as my pick. If I only had a Ruger LCP VS LCR? I'd take the LCR in .38 Special. It *really* is a difficult and "apples to oranges" kind of choice to debate/choose .38 Special to .380.

VooDoo

 

[krupparms]

Like I said in some European countries it was front line combat issue! The Browning M 1922, the Beretta M1934 ect. Both of these guns were standard Military issue! Not second line issue. Alot of Colt 1903 &1908 pistols were front line issue to partisans and other agents! You can argue this point if you chose
But history is against you on this one.

 

[David E]

Like I said in some European countries it was front line combat issue!

No, you didn't say that originally. You said:

The .380 ACP in a simi- auto pistol has been used as a police & military round for many years. It still works in that role, so I would go with a good hi-cap model in .380ACP. Already made that choice years ago

And I replied:

Not in America as a first line of defense.

There's no argument.

 

[David E]

Very few folks are listing their carry load for either gun.

I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in what you're loading these guns with.

 

[jimbo555]

With the 38spl. you have the 158gr.lswhp "fbi load". Proven for decades to expand and penetrate. It's much easier to find a 38spl. load that penetrates enough and expands too. I prefer a revolver over a small auto for reliability.

 

[Hometeached1]

David E,

I currently carry Speer Gold Dot 135gr +p, but have used the "FBI load" 158gr +p and Federal 125gr Nyclad in my S&W 642.

Still bounce back and forth on which .380 ammo, (FMJ or Hornady Critical Defence.) but since I don't own a .380 at present I'm not obsessing about it.

 

[David E]

I've always liked the FBI load, but it doesn't seem to expand much from a 2" barrel.

I'm looking at and testing the Gold Dot Short Barrel now.

 

[420Stainless]

I don't carry either one anymore, but when I did it was with Corbon 90 grain JHP in the PPK/s and Federal standard pressure Nyclads in the Detective Special.

 

[fastbolt]

Very few folks are listing their carry load for either gun.

I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in what you're loading these guns with.

Fair enough, although over the years I've gradually come over to the mindset that if you have to rely on some specific bullet/load for some caliber, you might be trying too hard to make it into something it's not. Then, there's the occasional concern that someone may be trying to rely on some special bullet to offset their lack of skillset.

I'll go first.

In .38 Spl I tend to lean toward any of the better 125/130/135gr loads offered in +P, and yet will sometimes fall back on using one of the better 158gr LSWCHP/LHP +P loads in a pinch.

I have boxes of Win RA38B (PDX1) 130gr +P bonded JHP's; Speer 135gr +P GDHP; and Rem's 125gr +P HPJ/BJHP (Golden Sabre). Even some Win 125gr +P STHP, but those have mostly been used for range quals & practice, as more modern JHP's are available. I prefer the Rem 158gr LHP +P load for its softer swaged lead, and possible better deformation/expansion, but don't lose sleep if forced to use the Win SPD load.

In my M37-2 I've used one or another of a couple of standard pressure 110gr JHP loads, but would still use a good 158gr LSWC standard pressure load, if needed.

Placement, placement, placement, all said & done.

.380 ACP?

Mostly it's been either the Speer 90gr GDHP or the Win 95gr RA380T. Why? Because those are the 2 loads most easily available to me as either issued or easily purchased loads (from a Win LE distributor). I've also tried the Rem 102gr GS (when it appeared in the training inventory for a brief time), as well as the standard Win 85gr STHP (for the same reason).

Again, I worry less about the specific modern load, and more about it actually running in the gun (LCP, for me), and doing so while I've effectively running the gun to make rapid, accurate hits in a controllable manner.

I like the heavier bullets in the .38 loads, for bullet mass & momentum, but the lighter .380 loads aren't a compromise that causes me too much loss of sleep when I'm able to use the slimmer & lighter LCP at times.

Neither the snub .38 Spl nor the .380 ACP are what I'd carry as a primary plainclothes weapon (aside from being a secondary weapon). For off-duty & retirement CCW? Mostly not a problem. Nice options for low risk assessment situations and conditions.

No, I don't have a crystal ball, but more than 3 decades of carrying a weapon with a badge has given me some experience and confidence in choosing something to meet my expected needs, and being able to assess those needs.

I certainly don't denigrate the choices of some folks to carry larger & heavier concealed weapons, though. Just like I don't care how they feel about my choices.

 

[ljnowell]

Jim 243 "I believe in giving people what they deserve."--I like that. I like to think of myself as generous as well. I would prefer to give those who deserve it an example of the bullet casting art, possibly something on the order of one of my 420 grain 45-70 bullets. With the exigencies of modern dress expectations in mind, I can rarely hope to have the platform to deliver such a gift in my hands should I need it in all too many social and business settings.



To answer the question, I prefer to have both the .38 and the .380 on my person.

With the holsters I have I can draw the 38 faster, and it's a little more powerful, but it has a limited capacity. If I have to be in a place, particularly in hot weather, where I can't wear a sports jacket and I will be in close proximity of people who I care whether they might notice bulges in my pocket or under my shirt, the 380 is much trimmer. Both cartridges are dramatically under powered and their best use might be to gain an advantage in the ensuing knife fight.

I can't agree with that. The 38 special is more than capable as a self defense round. Sure, it's not a super magnum big bore round but with a good bullet it's been getting it done for a long time.

 

[Woodsman!]

+1 on this

 

[4v50 Gary]

38 Special. I'm better with a revolver than a .380 ACP pistol.

 

[golden]

380 for me

I used to carry a S&W model 38 Bodyguard or CHARTER ARMS Undercover, but now they just live in my safe.

I found that a small semi-auto was easier to conceal and usually easier to shoot. When possible, I carried a SIG 232 with an aluminum frame. I can shoot this pistol as well as my SIG 225 or 226. It has night sights, great trigger and terrific ergonomics that a 5 shot revolver cannot match, at least for me. The only problem was that the 232 was a little large and did not conceal as well as the WALTHER PPK that I usually carry.

Now I have been shooting a GLOCK 42 in .380ACP, which is the size of the PPK and lighter, but shoots almost as well as the SIG and the recoil is acceptable. It will become my standatd carry gun once I have put 300 rounds through it.

Jim

 

[Praxidike]

In the winter, a 38 special because it can be fired from inside my coat or pants pocket, and in the summer, a 380 because the concealability. If I had to choose just one, it would be the 380.

 

[smkummer]

15 oz. Colt agent 38. I can hit very well with it at 10-15 yards. When the bulk of the cylinder is too much for my summer cargo shorts, then its a Smith 61 escort in 22LR. I need to replace the smith with a 380 though because in a gun fight, I'll probably empty the 6 rds. of 22 and the attacker may still return fire.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

When I don't carry my M1911, I carry my Colt Detective Special in a "tuckable" IWB of my own design. I don't pocket carry.

I currently carry the Winchester 130-grain personal defense load. In my Fackler box, it penetrates about 18" and expands to about .50 caliber.

 

[SeanSw]

I carry a .380 for the ease of concealment even though I greatly prefer a heavy .38 special for terminal effect. The semi auto platform is an advantage for capacity and reloads but it sure would be nice if those first 5 shots were heavy .38 special +p instead of standard pressure .380.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

The semi auto platform is an advantage for capacity and reloads but it sure would be nice if those first 5 shots were heavy .38 special +p instead of standard pressure .380.

Agreed..I'd settle for being able to crank out 158 gr. .38 special +P at anywhere near the accuracy that I can triple tap with my Wife's G42. In concealable revolvers, full house .38 Special +P pretty much is a one shot deal with me as the muzzle blast, recoil, and hand smack just beats me senseless.

My hand loaded .380 100 gr. flat nose are pretty hot and I can deliver 3X of them to a 4" circle in less than a second. I dearly love my .38's (and .357 Mag. snubbie as well!) but in a snubbie/concealable revolver I'm simply not adept enough to realize the advantage of it over a Glock 42 with hot handloads.

I'm sure others can make better use of it.....

VooDoo

 

[Bezoar]

it isnt even a debate folks. Not even close to one. If your only concerned about what works your friends a 38 special. even the unloved 130 grain fmj out performs the typical fmj and hard cast slugs carried in most .380s due to function

 

[SeanSw]

Vodoun da Vinci, it's a coincedence that you say that. I also use 100gr flat nose lead in my .380. Mine are Buffalo bore since I don't load my own. They are easy to shoot and accurate in my gun. The arguments are infinite but these are my personal compromise for a pocket gun.

We have not been able to test the Buffalo Bore .38 special 150gr hard cast wadcutters through the guns selected for ccw by my significant other but they are a top choice for consideration. We like ammunition that doesn't have to push you, or the bullet, to the ragged edge for good results.

 

[ACP]

Either is fine with the right load.

I carry j-frames with CT grips and 158-gr. +P LSWCHP. I generally hit what I am aiming at.

Buffalo Bore makes a 100-gr. hard cast flat nose in .380 that does 1149 fps out of a Walther PPK-3.5 inch barrel. Ouch.

In my rulebook, having a gun on you is first, firearm reliability is second, and the ability to make precise hits at speed is third. So, whatever combination works for you.

 

[Schwing]

I own both, reload for both and regularly carry both. As far as defense ammo, I may be more pragmatic than most. My logic is that I don't believe much expansion is going to happen at .380 or .38 velocities anyway so I don't fret about it too much. Everyone knows that there are much more effective calibers out there but, to me, that can escalate until you are "Outgunned" unless you are carrying an AA gun in your back pocket

I regularly carry my Ruger LCR and Bersa thunder.

 

[Mauser lover]

Everyone seems to keep saying that either is fine with the right load! Well... true, but no load is the right load if YOU can't hit with it. (This has been mentioned, but not enough, as far as I could tell.)

I love a nice .38 revolver, but if YOU shoot a itty bitty .380 better, and it meets your needs better, go for it. You can't really compare ballistics, because .38 +P wins hands down, but when you factor in YOUR skill with a given platform, and the enjoyment that you get out of one platform or another when practicing, your parameters change a bit.

 

[CraigC]

it isnt even a debate folks. Not even close to one.

It absolutely is a debate and one I have every day. Not one of power and capability but one of concealability. A .380 in your pocket is infinitely better than the .38Spl you left at home.