.22LR Pocket Gun: J-frame or PPK 22LR?

[MrPink]

Here's an interesting variation of the J-frame:

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com/store/index.php3?cat=294660&item=865231&sw_activeTab=2

351PD, 7 shot 22 Mag, J-frame snubbie. As soon as they get approved for sale in MD, I'm thinking of selling my 317 and upgrading. The only thing I'm not wild about is the HI-viz front sight, but hopefully that can be replaced.

J-frame pocket carry but with the increased oomph of the 22 Mag.

 

[nero45acp]

I had a Walther PP in .22LR that I bought at Earl's Repair for around $1000. It was finicky with ammo and one mag didn't work worth a darn. Sold it (at a loss)

Bought a LNIB S&W 4" M63 for $350 and couldn't be happier with it! My twelve year old son loves it. It's 100% reliable and more accurate than the Walther.


nero

 

[Nick96]

I believe the original post indicated the gun would be used for fun / plinking. If those are the conditions - the PPK is better looking - fun to shoot - and who cares about reliability.

I had a Wather PP .32 once that was a jewel. Also had a Walther .380 PPK/S that was junk. I have neither now since both became unreliable (the .32 was 40 years old and flat worn out - the PPK/S was ..... JUNK from the begining).

I have both a .22 revolver & a couple of autos. I find the revolver to be a lot more fun. And, it doubles as a cheap ammo under study for a similar frame sized .357.

At my station in life I'd recommend the small frame revolver. In the long run it's going to be a lot more versitle, more fun and actually will improve your overall shooting skills. But, if the desire is just plain old range fun - get what ever tickels your fancy. Between a J-Frame revolver and a PPK though - the revolver is more likely to remain in the range bag for years to come. The "sex appeal" will wear off of the PPK sooner than you think.

 

[nero45acp]

quote "and who cares about reliability"

I suspect alot of gun owners care about reliability.

Personally, having to fiddle-fart around with an unreliable gun is not a recipe for fun. :banghead:



nero

 

[Jim K]

I guess .22 LR PPK's are far more common that I thought. Maybe Manurhin made more than Walther did pre-war. If anyone knows where pre-war .22 PPK's can be bought in 100% condition for $500, please let me know, as I will be writing checks.

As to safety, all the PP and PPK pistols have a firing pin lock that prevents forward motion of the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. It is similar in concept to the firing pin lock on the Series 80 Colt Government Models, although it works a little differently. In addition, the PP and PPK have a true hammer block safety, as does the Heeres Pistole (HP) model. The HP successor, the P.38, was changed for cost saving and ease of manufacture to have the firing pin locked by the safety rather than the safety blocking access to the firing pin. The P.38 system is less safe and failure of the safety on decocking has occurred, resulting in full auto firing.

Jim

 

[Nick96]

Nero,

Perhaps I should have just cut to the chase!!!

GIVEN THE CHOICE - CHOOSE A REVOLVER

 

[DBR]

I beg to differ re: the passive firing pin safety. I do not know about the 22lr version, but none of the five 380 PPK/PPKS USA made guns I have owned had any firing pin safety. If the slide mounted safety is engaged then the firing pin is blocked. If the safety is not engaged then the inertia firing pin can and does fire the gun if the gun is dropped on the muzzle.

 

[DMK]

I guess .22 LR PPK's are far more common that I thought. Maybe Manurhin made more than Walther did pre-war.

I supect that may be true, or at least perhaps they are less collectible because of the Manhurin name on them and not many understand the relationship/history of Manhurin and Walther post WII.

If anyone knows where pre-war .22 PPK's can be bought in 100% condition for $500, please let me know, as I will be writing checks.

There's a few .22LR PPs in the following links. Some are the post-war Manhurins, and some are not, but I don't know if the latter are pre or post war. I found these site on a web search comparing prices. I actually found quite a few on the web, but these are the only ones I can remember off hand.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/Showroom/Walther/walther.htm

http://www.germansales.com/limited.htm

 

[JNewell]

Nothing will happen.

The original German PP/PPK have some kind of hammer-block passive safety. Until the trigger is not fully pulled back, the hammer can not contatc with the firing pin.

(The only way they can be fired without pulling the trigger is to drop from 3-4 meters height on concrete, because the firing pin itself is not blocked.)

I wasn't trying to say that the hammer can contact the firing pin. However, you can simulate the inertial force, but it is inertia, not the blow on the hammer itself that would cause it to fire. Personally, I wouldn't try testing it either way.

If the slide mounted safety is engaged then the firing pin is blocked. If the safety is not engaged then the inertia firing pin can and does fire the gun if the gun is dropped on the muzzle.

I believe that's right also -- they are drop safe with the safety on. They shouldn't be carried with a round in the chamber without the safety engaged.

 

[gvass]

"You're right and wrong. You can simulate the inertial force, but it's inertia, not the blow on the hammer itself that would cause it to fire. Personally, I wouldn't try testing it either way."

If you do not drop it from some very high place to some very solid and hard surface, there is not enough inertia for the light firing pin to hit hard enough.

(The same as on Kel-Tec pistols)

If you hit the hammer (and theoretically the gun is fixed in its place), the only possibility to fire is to broke the hammer off, and the broken part will hit the firing pin.

It is very unlikely, and from this point the older HiPower or pre-series80 M1911 are no more safe.

Personally I have never heard of any AD of decocked and safety off PP/PPKs.

 

[scubie02]

I've owned a couple of Beretta 21's and have to say they were both extremely reliable and surprisingly accurate. I think the older ones were better made than the newer ones, but they are still decent now. The nice thing about a 22 is its cheap to shoot/practice with. And even though most of the time I carry a 1911--either full size or compact--lets face it there are times when you just need something REALLY concealable. The Beretta fits the bill for that. The only problem is that if you ever DID have a problem, Beretta's customer service really sucks (found this out with a rifle I had). But it seems like you have a decent chance of not having a problem with the 21. Oh, also, the tip up barrel is nice for loading/unloading safely.

I also have a Keltec P32 which you might want to consider since they are lighter and thinner even than the Beretta. They ain't pretty but they work well. I didn't get it because its a 32 rather than a 22--in this size range you are looking at head shots or deterrence factor from being shot rather than quick kills from body shots anyway, and a 22 hole in the head is probably as effective as a 32. I know a "professional" who carries the Beretta as a BUG who when recommending it and seeing I was dubious said "there's no such thing as a "good" hole in the head..."

 

[No Trespassing]

I have a Colt Jr. in .22short that my dad gave me last year.

He bought it new in 1962 or so and still had the box and the little cleaning rod that came with it.

It's the tiniest little semi-auto I've ever seen. It shots pretty darn straight out to 10 yards too! I don't know if they ever made them in .22LR but that would have been a neat little package.

MC