25 Grain FFG Loads and Brass Frame Revolvers

[MagnumDweeb]

I've got an opportunity to pickup a never fired Pietta Brass Frame Navy C&B .44 revolver for $170 cash.

I don't know if I really want to get it as I've heard the brass frames wear out real quick. Is there any truth to this. I'm thinking a 25 grain load of FFG wouldn't really tax the frame that much but I've only got my Ruger Old Army and a Old ASM model that I think was supposed to be a Colt 1858 Navy knockoff and I keep the loads around thirty grains and haven't had a problem.

 

[rodwha]

I've read that 20 grns is about the max you'd want to use without wearing it out.

You can get one of those brass framed .44's on sale at Cabelas for that cost (sale) right now.

 

[grter]

I have seen the frame (full frame not open top either) crack on a couple of them. I am not sure how much black powder was used.

I would keep the charge as low as posible and plan on getting a full steel frame that should be safe with full loads for only a little bit more money than you paid for yours but is sounds like you already have a couple of good ones. I will give brass frames this though they can be polished up to look very very very pretty.

 

[J-Bar]

I have a pair that I charge with 20 grains of FFG for cowboy action competition. You can have a lot of fun without trying to turn them into magnums. I think it would take a long time to damage them with 25 grains of powder.

And if you do shoot it out, you will have had a lot of fun for $170.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

25 grains is pretty stout for the "Confederate", brass framed .44's even with round ball. I found that over 20 grains the caps tended to break up, and sometimes would fall down into the cylinder and mess with the action. Not tough to fix, but crap if you are doing CASS shooting.

I used to use 18 grains of 3Fg, with two .44 felt wads between the powder and the ball. They shot great.

LD

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I can tell you for a fact that a steady diet of 30 grain loads either stretched the frame or pulled the arbor forward on my old 44 caliber Uberti brass framed 'Navy'. Back when I bought it in 1968 nobody was warning us about brass frames stretching, so I was using 30 grain loads.

 

[rodwha]

20 grns certainly isn't as useful. About all that's good for is paper punching, which is fine if that's all you'll ever want to do. But then you'll also likely need to carry around breakfast cereal or use extra wads to shoot them safely.

I'll be using mine for hunting, and I've found that my Ruger does well with 35 grns of 3F with about anything I've fed it. With my 195 grn WFN I figure this has at least 425 ft/lbs as Mike Beliveau, using the same gun and powder got nearly 470 ft/lbs with a 30 grn charge and a 225 grn conical (220 and 458 ft/lbs?). That's modern .45 Colt loads, which is plenty for medium game.

My Remington '58 likes 30 grns. To me a little recoil, a lot of smoke, and a thunderous boom is more fun, and there's nothing "magnum" about it.

 

[BullSlinger]

I usually shoot 17 to 20 gr. in a brass framed 44. It is an accurate load. I use a wad or filler.

 

[EljaySL]

You can get those at Cabelas for $149 a lot of the time between Thanksgiving and Christmas.

Personally I wouldn't go over about 20gr, but it's hard to say. The brass on the current production seems to be pretty high quality which might give more margin for error if it's recent. Still, I'd want it to be as new as possible given how Pietta's quality has improved so much in general.

 

[Hellgate]

FFg will give a little less pressure peak compared to FFFg but that would be the top load. I don't shoot over 20grs FFFg + roundball in my brasser Colts.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

If you're using them for hunting, then 25 grains would be good, I'd say anything stouter would mean that you should go for a steel frame. Since the damaged cap falling into the cylinder won't be a factor when hunting.

LD

 

[dickydalton]

I bought a Cabalas, on sale for $119, Pietta 1851 brass framed 44 about 4 years ago and have shot the living crap out of it. I don't believe I've shot more than a couple cylinders of less than 25 grains of 3F through it and it's still going strong. I've even shot some 30 grain loads though not many. I actually bought two more of them when they were on sale for $129 and $149, I think, but haven't shot them as much. Those 3 are the only brassers I have but I'm sure not sorry I spent $119 on that first one.

 

[rodwha]

25 grns is a bit light, though I suppose the powder type and projectile makes a difference. Look at what 28 grns of Pyrodex P and a ball does from a Rem '58:

http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

But also look at how just changing the ball diameter often creates a bit more velocity/energy.

25 grns of 3F Triple 7 and a 255 grn Kaido bullet is a whopper! Nearly 500 ft/lbs of energy...

However I'm still amazed that a PRB from a rifle having maybe 300 ft/lbs at range can often be found on the offside of deer. With such a low sectional density I wouldn't have thought it possible.

I have yet to use a BP weapon for hunting, and cannot claim any experience. All I "know" is what I've been told through these various forums. And what they've often told me is that my knowledge of modern ballistics needs to be checked at the door.

 

[J-Bar]

And what they've often told me is that my knowledge of modern ballistics needs to be checked at the door.

We have been seduced into thinking that only kinetic energy kills. I think the table shows that if you poke a large diameter hole all the way through a living thing, it will die, and that is determined by the projectile's momentum, not it's kinetic energy.

I would not hunt with the 20 or 25 grain load in my .44s, but at close range I have no doubt it would do the job on thin-skinned game like deer. Neither would I want to try to catch one of those old slow balls myself.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Ah it depends on WHAT is being hunted. I can't legally hunt deer with a black powder handgun with less than 40 grains of powder... so that's going to be something like a Colt Dragoon or a Walker for me...now if you're going for rabbits or squirrels, 25 gains works just fine, and the Confederate .44's will suffice.

LD