Mike1234567
member
^^^ Well, there ya' have it. 
.270 or .308?
- Thread starter HikerHunterChad
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AABEN
Member
270 uno 1 it has a larger range of bullets 90gr--160 it is a ground hog or a elk gun. It is an all round gun.
No the .270 does not have a larger range of bullets, the .308 & the .30-06 do & can share every bullet in the book................
Check out the Lapua .308 Palma. The company has research that shows the small rifle primer is a big boost to accuracy. I believe the Lapua .308 Palma brass is going for about $79/100. There's a deal! Now, why wouldn't they convert all their brass to small primer (Palma)?
.270 less recoil-sure, you're shooting lighter bullets
Hornady shows only 150 gr max load for .270; 30.06 over 200 gr
Lapua does not even make brass for .270 - that tells you something
every calibre will have it's sweet spot at the max loads-give consideration also to .243-Hornady makes a 105 gr bullet with BC .53 in BTHP match and .50 in hunting round. If that's your sweet spot in need, and it sounds like it might be, go for it. But, you best not go bear hunting with it. Same for .270. Now, 30.06 sweet spot is 225 gr, BC .67 for HPBT match, and 208 gr hunting bullet w/BC .648. Now that's where you start seeing the long range capability of the bigger calibres. .338 is great if you want to throw out 300 grain bullets - I don't - can't bear the cost or recoil. .308 is simply
a reduced case 30.06 so not even in consideration, except for the Palma. My personal usage would be a reduced load in 30.06, using the flat shooting bullets for most use, and a few loaded to MAX just in case a hunting opportunity arises where distance is extreme. But, it's insane to expend a max round on a 100 yard shot at medium game - just gross overkill. I would have light rounds chambered and max rounds in a side pocket for special occasions. A mule dear at 600 yards out can wait for me to change out bullets.
.270 less recoil-sure, you're shooting lighter bullets
Hornady shows only 150 gr max load for .270; 30.06 over 200 gr
Lapua does not even make brass for .270 - that tells you something
every calibre will have it's sweet spot at the max loads-give consideration also to .243-Hornady makes a 105 gr bullet with BC .53 in BTHP match and .50 in hunting round. If that's your sweet spot in need, and it sounds like it might be, go for it. But, you best not go bear hunting with it. Same for .270. Now, 30.06 sweet spot is 225 gr, BC .67 for HPBT match, and 208 gr hunting bullet w/BC .648. Now that's where you start seeing the long range capability of the bigger calibres. .338 is great if you want to throw out 300 grain bullets - I don't - can't bear the cost or recoil. .308 is simply
a reduced case 30.06 so not even in consideration, except for the Palma. My personal usage would be a reduced load in 30.06, using the flat shooting bullets for most use, and a few loaded to MAX just in case a hunting opportunity arises where distance is extreme. But, it's insane to expend a max round on a 100 yard shot at medium game - just gross overkill. I would have light rounds chambered and max rounds in a side pocket for special occasions. A mule dear at 600 yards out can wait for me to change out bullets.
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HikerHunterChad
Member
Fremmer,
You make a good point here. If I am looking for a rifle w/ range, accuracy AND versatility to hunt varmints as well as big game, would .308 be more versatile than the 30-06? Are any of these calibers (30-06, .308, .270, 7mm-08) more versatile than the rest in this area of being able to load light for varmints and heavy for bear?
From what I am reading here, all the rounds mentioned above have enough range and accuracy to meet my needs, they are all readily available rounds and all of them have the "knock down power" needed for big game. I guess the remaining issue is which one can I most easily load with a light bullet for varmints like ground hogs.
Chad
You make a good point here. If I am looking for a rifle w/ range, accuracy AND versatility to hunt varmints as well as big game, would .308 be more versatile than the 30-06? Are any of these calibers (30-06, .308, .270, 7mm-08) more versatile than the rest in this area of being able to load light for varmints and heavy for bear?
From what I am reading here, all the rounds mentioned above have enough range and accuracy to meet my needs, they are all readily available rounds and all of them have the "knock down power" needed for big game. I guess the remaining issue is which one can I most easily load with a light bullet for varmints like ground hogs.
Chad
My first rifle was and is a Savage 110 in 270caliber. I've had it for over 40 years and taken well over a hundred heads of big game with it. As far as the little critters go I've killed so many I cant count them. The gun has accounted for Moose, Elk, Big Bear etc etc. I never knew I was undergunned and quite frankly I wasn't. I've bought many other calibers over the years but used them once or twice and put them away. The 270 in the $65.00 Savage that I bought out of Shotgun News still brings home the meat. FRJ
PinoyInFL
Member
The other advantage of a .308 is that there's a lot of "fun" rifles using the same caliber. So if you so decide to get one of those rifles (like the M1A/M14, AR10, LR308, FAL, HK91/93 and variants - PTR91, Cetme, etc.), you may be able to use most of your existing ammo. My 1st 308 rifle was a Rem. 700 LTR. Then, I got a M14 type rifle (Armscorp), then an FR8. I use the same ammo on all of them - American Eagle 150gr FMJBT in 7.62 x 51.
warbirdlover
Member
Just look at the ballistics. .270 all the way IMHO. I don't know what all the uproar over the .308 is. Pretty ordinary but popular because it was a military round and used in military competitions.
Look at it this way on the top end of bullet weights:
The .277cal 150gn SST has a sectional density of .279 and a BC of .525. The .270 can fairly comfortably achieve 2900fps with this bullet.
The .308cal 180gn SST has a SD of .271 and a BC of .480. The .308 Win can send this one at 2500fps and the .30-06 at 2700.
We're talking bullets of the same construction so apples to apples. The .270 will shoot flatter and buck the wind better than either of the .30cals and the higher SD of the .277cal bullet traveling faster will penetrate better at all ranges as well.
The .277cal 150gn SST has a sectional density of .279 and a BC of .525. The .270 can fairly comfortably achieve 2900fps with this bullet.
The .308cal 180gn SST has a SD of .271 and a BC of .480. The .308 Win can send this one at 2500fps and the .30-06 at 2700.
We're talking bullets of the same construction so apples to apples. The .270 will shoot flatter and buck the wind better than either of the .30cals and the higher SD of the .277cal bullet traveling faster will penetrate better at all ranges as well.
Chad, the point I'm making is that I picked the rifle first, caliber second. Other members have already said you're good to go with handloaded varmint rounds in the. 308, and they know more about that than I do. You could probably handload varmint rounds for the. 270 and the. 30-06, too (again, you'll have to ask the more knowledgable members here about that). But in my opinion, for deer hunting, all three calibers knock, 'em down hard equally well, and all are equally effective as a practical matter. I've used all three calibers to take several deer.
Buy the rifle you really like, and don't worry so much about the perfect caliber. There are more rifles in your future. Spend a little more and get something nice for your first rifle. And then get ready to spend even more for nice glass.
Buy the rifle you really like, and don't worry so much about the perfect caliber. There are more rifles in your future. Spend a little more and get something nice for your first rifle. And then get ready to spend even more for nice glass.
Goochman270
Member
I have a Remington 700 in .270win with some upgraded parts and accessories. I can not complain about it as i have dropped about 11 deer with it all first shot kills between 75-375yds including headshots and running shots. It is extremely accurate and I can hit pretty good with it out to about 850yd if the wind isn't whipping around too bad. However, if i were to do it again I would have chose a .308win. The .308 gives you way more options. More stocks, mounts, barrels, ammunition availability/options, ect. You can't go wrong with either but I'd choose a heavy barreled .308win.
Cranky CJ
Member
Wow, what a debate. Seems to me the only thing this thread has settled is how people fall in love with a caliber.
I suggest the OP use any number of different on-line ballistic calculators to examine the ballistics of the two for himself.
I'll offer this, taken from federals on-line calculator.
Nosler partitions, 150 gr for each the 270 and 308
BC- 270 = .466
BC- 308 = .387
vel at 400 yds,
270 -2093fps
308 -1966fps
energy at 400 yds,
270- 1459 ft-lbs
308- 1288 ft-lbs
trajectory at 400 yds,
270; -29.0 in
308; -30.7 in
slight edge goes to the 270. But, pick what you want or have your heart set on, because you will end up going to it eventually.
I suggest the OP use any number of different on-line ballistic calculators to examine the ballistics of the two for himself.
I'll offer this, taken from federals on-line calculator.
Nosler partitions, 150 gr for each the 270 and 308
BC- 270 = .466
BC- 308 = .387
vel at 400 yds,
270 -2093fps
308 -1966fps
energy at 400 yds,
270- 1459 ft-lbs
308- 1288 ft-lbs
trajectory at 400 yds,
270; -29.0 in
308; -30.7 in
slight edge goes to the 270. But, pick what you want or have your heart set on, because you will end up going to it eventually.
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HikerHunterChad
Member
I believe that I have settled on the caliber and type of rifle that I would like to get. First of all, there are sound arguments for many calibers in the application I listed above. After reading many of the posts, I was less firmly settled on the caliber.
I decided, therefore to look at what brands/models offered all the other features I wanted and see what caliber those rifles happened to come in. I perused the websites of Winchester, Remington, Savage and Ruger. Winchester makes a handsome rifle w/ a great reputation but their price tags immediately ruled them out for me. Long story made short: the Remington 700 seemed to be the most bang for my buck and with a solid reputation as well.
I was really wanting a heavy barrel for accuracy’s sake and that seemed to limit me to .223 or .308. After settling on .308. I wanted a tight rifling (10”) and their were only a couple 700’s that offered that - both of them tactical versions. I have settled on the Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD. I would have liked to have a longer barrel, but I can only get the 10” rifling and heavy barrel in a 20” barrel.
A civilian rifle with threads for a suppressor seems pretty silly to me, though this is the “tactical” model. I guess if I ever decide to go work for the CIA it could be handy. Once tax return gets here it should be Christmas for me and I’ll post to let you guys know how I’m liking the new rifle.
Thanks for all of your input.
Chad
I decided, therefore to look at what brands/models offered all the other features I wanted and see what caliber those rifles happened to come in. I perused the websites of Winchester, Remington, Savage and Ruger. Winchester makes a handsome rifle w/ a great reputation but their price tags immediately ruled them out for me. Long story made short: the Remington 700 seemed to be the most bang for my buck and with a solid reputation as well.
I was really wanting a heavy barrel for accuracy’s sake and that seemed to limit me to .223 or .308. After settling on .308. I wanted a tight rifling (10”) and their were only a couple 700’s that offered that - both of them tactical versions. I have settled on the Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD. I would have liked to have a longer barrel, but I can only get the 10” rifling and heavy barrel in a 20” barrel.
A civilian rifle with threads for a suppressor seems pretty silly to me, though this is the “tactical” model. I guess if I ever decide to go work for the CIA it could be handy. Once tax return gets here it should be Christmas for me and I’ll post to let you guys know how I’m liking the new rifle.
Thanks for all of your input.
Chad
BoilerUP
Member
While I'm a Savage fan, the 700 AAC-SD is a solid rifle.
http://www.8541tactical.com/budget precision article.php
Don't laugh too hard at the threaded muzzle...if you ever shoot a suppressed weapon you'll be saving your pennies for a can or three.
http://www.8541tactical.com/budget precision article.php
Don't laugh too hard at the threaded muzzle...if you ever shoot a suppressed weapon you'll be saving your pennies for a can or three.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Chad you have never fired a suppressed rifle before, have you....
HikerHunterChad
Member
No I have not fired a suppressed rifle. What is the advantage other than concealing you location?
BoilerUP
Member
Come on now, give the new guy a little slack.
Most folks who have only seen a "silencer" in movies or on TV have no idea what suppressors are really like or the benefits they provide...I know I sure didn't.
Most folks who have only seen a "silencer" in movies or on TV have no idea what suppressors are really like or the benefits they provide...I know I sure didn't.
HikerHunterChad
Member
All I know about suppressors is that when I was in the Army during the early 90's, our recon teams carried MP5's w/ suppressors so as to conceal their location. They worked just fine w/ the 9mm. Our line units tested some suppressors on the M4's and M16's and found that they did not suppress noise enough to make a difference. I can't imagine what a suppressor could do for a 7.62 round. As a civilian, I have sound enhancing ear protection that I wear and probably still would have to wear w/ the suppressors I knew of (but never actually shot with). Doesn't this also slow the velocity of the bullet to subsonic? So what has changed in the last 15 or 20 years that makes suppressors desirable or beneficial for the civilian shooter?
BoilerUP
Member
Suppressors reduce report, muzzle blast and recoil...which can lead to increased accuracy.
You'll still get a supersonic crack from the bullet (a suppressor doesn't reduce velocity, in fact some increase it a few FPS), but the overall noise footprint is dramatically reduced. This can be a factor in tactical situations where you want to minimize the report of a shot (military or law enforcement snipers, for example), or where you're trying to be polite to neighbors, or when hunting where you don't want to spook game, or when you don't want to get your shoulder beat up due to recoil.
Suppressors won't do "Hollywood quiet", even with subsonics, but they do make a LARGE difference. Like a 25-40dB difference...even on 5.56 and 7.62 weapon systems.
You'll still get a supersonic crack from the bullet (a suppressor doesn't reduce velocity, in fact some increase it a few FPS), but the overall noise footprint is dramatically reduced. This can be a factor in tactical situations where you want to minimize the report of a shot (military or law enforcement snipers, for example), or where you're trying to be polite to neighbors, or when hunting where you don't want to spook game, or when you don't want to get your shoulder beat up due to recoil.
Suppressors won't do "Hollywood quiet", even with subsonics, but they do make a LARGE difference. Like a 25-40dB difference...even on 5.56 and 7.62 weapon systems.
HikerHunterChad
Member
Do you have to have a special license for rifle suppressors or just for handguns? This makes a hell of a lot more sense and in the military application of a whole platoon of .556 being shot simultaneously, the above listed benefits probably don't apply.
If the price is right this might be a worthy investment down the road.
If the price is right this might be a worthy investment down the road.
BoilerUP
Member
No "special license" per se....just a $200 tax to Uncle Sam per NFA item and then a 3-6 month wait for tremendously overworked/understaffed examiners to approve your stamp.
Of course, some states don't allow legal ownership of suppressors.
22LR suppressors are as inexpensive as $200, with 30cal cans running from about $600 to well north of $1500 depending on make, model and construction type.
Of course, some states don't allow legal ownership of suppressors.
22LR suppressors are as inexpensive as $200, with 30cal cans running from about $600 to well north of $1500 depending on make, model and construction type.
Tax stamp. Not a license.
It's the same stamp for a .50bmg suppressor as for a .22LR suppressor. The cost of the "Can" will vary though.
It is illegal in many states to hunt with a suppressed weapon, even though they are legal to own and use for fun.
Which is completely bass ackwards to me.
It's the same stamp for a .50bmg suppressor as for a .22LR suppressor. The cost of the "Can" will vary though.
It is illegal in many states to hunt with a suppressed weapon, even though they are legal to own and use for fun.
Which is completely bass ackwards to me.
Savage 12 with 26" Pac-Nor 308 barrel.
Best accessory I ever put on a rifle is a silencer. While it is far from quiet, the noise and recoil reduction is outstanding. This can only cost me about $50 plus the $200 tax. I make them on an ATF form 1. While it lowers point of impact, it has no effect on accuracy or velocity.
It also works well on my 338 ultra mag. Every person who has shot my 338 rum with a 250 grain bullet in front of 90 grains of powder and moving 3050 fps was impressed.
Ranb
Best accessory I ever put on a rifle is a silencer. While it is far from quiet, the noise and recoil reduction is outstanding. This can only cost me about $50 plus the $200 tax. I make them on an ATF form 1. While it lowers point of impact, it has no effect on accuracy or velocity.
It also works well on my 338 ultra mag. Every person who has shot my 338 rum with a 250 grain bullet in front of 90 grains of powder and moving 3050 fps was impressed.
Ranb
Years ago a group of us started varmint hunting. One had a .308 while others tried .22-250, 6mm, .25-06 and .270.
The problem with using the light varmint bullets in .308 is that they won't shoot far, maybe 300 yards at best.
The .270 shooting a smaller diameter light weight bullet has the edge here. My friend with the .270 didn't do badly using his rifle as a varmint gun.
The problem with using the light varmint bullets in .308 is that they won't shoot far, maybe 300 yards at best.
The .270 shooting a smaller diameter light weight bullet has the edge here. My friend with the .270 didn't do badly using his rifle as a varmint gun.
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