270 Wsm issues need advice

[Baldur]

I am having issues getting rounds to chamber in a 270 WSM on a Rem 700
Things I have tried and what the results are so far

1. I Used RCBS Dies and set the die down half turn to full turn down and check all measurements.
   • I measured all areas of the brass and could not for the life get it to chamber and bring the bolt down smooth
2. I purchased hornady dies thinking it was an issue with the RCBS die
   • I got some pieces to chamber ok and thought I was on my way to full loads (lol wrong)
3. I sanded down some of the shell holder
   • This I think helped me to get some better fits

All was going well and I was ready to load a round and test the fit. I got the brass to chamber, Checked the length and I was under the trim length. I loaded up a round that was under SAAMI spec for length with that specific bullet and thought I was ready to go.
To my surprise the built would not close or was not even really close.
At this point I am perplexed and don’t know what to try. My next thoughts were that I need to get a small base sizing Die and try to size the head down further. The max diameter of the neck is .555 and I was under that but not by much at .554 or .553. Is the short mag really that rediculous about tolerances or am I doing something wrong?

 

[edwardware]

SB sizers are almost always unnecessary. Just don't.

Zeroth, does factory ammo work?

First, are you actually closing the gap and touching the shellholder to the die while sizing? Touching with an empty die doesn't count, and neither does "half a turn." Run a case up, lean over and look for light between the shellholder and the die nose; advance the die till there isn't any.

Second, using a sized case, with no further operations, check again.

 

[troy fairweather]

the wsm you have to size the crap out of. my 7wsm rcbs dies need to be 2 turns past the shell holder. if you need more sizing you will have to take some off the top of the shellholder. welcome to THR.

 

[Baldur]

SB sizers are almost always unnecessary. Just don't.

Zeroth, does factory ammo work?

First, are you actually closing the gap and touching the shellholder to the die while sizing? Touching with an empty die doesn't count, and neither does "half a turn." Run a case up, lean over and look for light between the shellholder and the die nose; advance the die till there isn't any.

Second, using a sized case, with no further operations, check again.

Yes factory ammo does work and the head size is around .552. I have checked the die to the shell holder spacing and I see no light. I may try to bring it down some more.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Sharpie the entire round. It will give you an idea where contact is being made.
Did you lube inside the neck? It could be pulling the shoulder out when the expander pulls back through.

 

[Baldur]

Sharpie the entire round. It will give you an idea where contact is being made.
Did you lube inside the neck? It could be pulling the shoulder out when the expander pulls back through.

I know supposedly the brass can bounce back after sizing and that could cause a thousand or so in fluctuations but i'm not sure this is happening. I will try to lube the mouth and see if that helps.

 

[alsaqr]

The OP says the empty brass chambered. Something may have happened during the bullet seating/crimping operation that changed case dimensions. A bulged shoulder could do that.

Closeup photos of a complete round could be helpful.

 

[edwardware]

Yes factory ammo does work and the head size is around .552. I have checked the die to the shell holder spacing and I see no light. I may try to bring it down some more.

Good.

Let me refine that point a little: are you feeling the ram cam-over (bump) the die nose during sizing? If so, then you are sizing as fully as the die/holder pair will allow. If not, advance the die a bit more.

If this doesn't solve it. . . we're getting interesting.

The OP says the empty brass chambered.

He did?

Edit: He did!

@Baldur : if your Sized brass (no further operations) will chamber, then your sizing die is not the problem. That leaves your seating die. . . I bet you're crimping. Stop it.

 

[Bfh_auto]

The OP says the empty brass chambered. Something may have happened during the bullet seating/crimping operation that changed case dimensions. A bulged shoulder could do that.
Closeup photos of a complete round could be helpful.

My brain didn't process that part. I bet you are right.

 

[badkarmamib]

My father has a 700 SPS in 270 WSM, as well. Factory ammo chambers fine. Fired brass extracts fine, but will not rechamber. I believe his chamber is out-of-round. When reloading, Lee dies would not bump the shoulder back sufficiently to correct this. I found that sliding a (IIRC 0.017") feeler gauge between the brass and the shell holder would allow for sufficient sizing. I did not want to have to do this for every round, so I had a machinist turn the die down 0.030", which allowed me to set the die for proper sizing. In retrospect, I probably should have had him turn down the shell holder instead, but oh well...

 

[edwardware]

My father has a 700 SPS. . . Fired brass extracts fine, but will not rechamber. I believe his chamber is out-of-round.

I have a Ruger M77 .270 with an ovaloid chamber. It was a rough place to start reloading, requires two separate sizing operations to avoid oversetting the shoulder, and still splits brass at the base after 3 reloads. If it wasn't a beautiful, accurate, completely unsupported gun, I'd pay Ruger to fix it.

 

[troy fairweather]

this is very common with the wsm and wssm you need the dies fully bottomed out plus some. i use the lyman shell holders, i believe the have a smaller gap between the base the case sits and the top. you can just take some off any shell holder and they will size fine.

 

[troy fairweather]

I have a Ruger M77 .270 with an ovaloid chamber. It was a rough place to start reloading, requires two separate sizing operations to avoid oversetting the shoulder, and still splits brass at the base after 3 reloads. If it wasn't a beautiful, accurate, completely unsupported gun, I'd pay Ruger to fix it.

sent that to ruger they should rebarrel if free of charge.

 

[edwardware]

sent that to ruger they should rebarrel if free of charge.

Ruger hasn't had the parts, or willingness, to support first generation M77s for a decade or more.

 

[troy fairweather]

Ruger hasn't had the parts, or willingness, to support first generation M77s for a decade or more.

ok it's a tang. they will offer you 60% off a new rifle, i called last year for a part for my 7x57 (i broke the safety are by accident) that's what they offered me then. i made the new are.

 

[JimKirk]

As said above ... Stop the crimping if you are doing so .... No need on a bolt action rifle ...

Have never crimped my .270 WSM ....

 

[Baldur]

OK guys, update.
I went back and lubed the mouth of the case as suggested and it was still the same. So then I loaded a dummy and shaded it with the sharpie to see where it might be making contact. on that test, it would not chamber and I looked to which I found no marking on the actual brass. So, I decided to check the length again on the factory ammo. it was much smaller in overall length than the book specified for SAMMI spec. I thought, what is there to lose so I seated the bullet down to factory ammo depth (actually a little more by accident). it didn't appear that the bullet was seated past the Ojive so I checked it in the rifle and it was a successful operation. I proceeded to load up an actual round and see if there would be compression in the seating process because of how low I was going. All seemed to work and look fine. I have 10 testers ready to try at the range and fingers crossed all turns out well.

Is it normal that barrel seems to want such a short overall bullet length? I thought normally it was that the bullet length to the actual lans of the rifle would be longer.

 

[Bfh_auto]

OK guys, update.
I went back and lubed the mouth of the case as suggested and it was still the same. So then I loaded a dummy and shaded it with the sharpie to see where it might be making contact. on that test, it would not chamber and I looked to which I found no marking on the actual brass. So, I decided to check the length again on the factory ammo. it was much smaller in overall length than the book specified for SAMMI spec. I thought, what is there to lose so I seated the bullet down to factory ammo depth (actually a little more by accident). it didn't appear that the bullet was seated past the Ojive so I checked it in the rifle and it was a successful operation. I proceeded to load up an actual round and see if there would be compression in the seating process because of how low I was going. All seemed to work and look fine. I have 10 testers ready to try at the range and fingers crossed all turns out well.

Is it normal that barrel seems to want such a short overall bullet length? I thought normally it was that the bullet length to the actual lans of the rifle would be longer.

You have reduced case capacity now. So be careful.
Glad you got it sorted out.

 

[sage5907]

First, are you actually closing the gap and touching the shellholder to the die while sizing? Touching with an empty die doesn't count, and neither does "half a turn." Run a case up, lean over and look for light between the shellholder and the die nose; advance the die till there isn't any.

Use a RCBS shell holder that has not been altered and use the RCBS dies and follow this advice. Make sure the shell holder comes into hard contact with the sizing die. Also, make sure the primer is seated flush with the rear of the case. Primers not seated flush can stick out .005 and keep the bolt from closing.

 

[Baldur]

Use a RCBS shell holder that has not been altered and use the RCBS dies and follow this advice. Make sure the shell holder comes into hard contact with the sizing die. Also, make sure the primer is seated flush with the rear of the case. Primers not seated flush can stick out .005 and keep the bolt from closing.

I hear ya on the primer and was very cautious to seat that. At first I was using rcbs dies and having issues with them. I may try again for future loads to try them out again.

 

[Baldur]

You have reduced case capacity now. So be careful.
Glad you got it sorted out.

What do you mean reduced case capacity? Do you mean the capacity to add so much powder?

 

[Bfh_auto]

What do you mean reduced case capacity? Do you mean the capacity to add so much powder?

As you seat the bullet deeper, you don't have as much capacity which can cause an increase in pressure.
It just means work up slowly with this rifle because it may be one of the few that show early pressure signs.