28 gauge/410 bore

[Guvnor]

I would like to purchase a shotgun, but due to a bad shoulder I cannot handle 12 or even 20 gauge recoil. I figure that leaves me with either the 28 gauge or a 410.

The gun's primary role would be for recreational shooting and perhaps some hunting...but to also have the ability to be pressed into service for home defense if ever needed.

Regarding the 28 gauge:

1. Can you shoot trap with a 28 and have moderate success?
2. Can you hunt larger birds like pheasant with a 28?
3. The largest size shot avavilable for 28 seems to be a 3/4oz. load of #5 or #6 birdshot. Would this be effective for very short range home defense?

Regarding the 410:

1. Can you shoot trap with the 410 and have ANY success?
2. I assume hunting with a 410 is limited to small birds (doves, quail, etc.)
3. I notice 410 buckshot is available which makes me think it would be better for home defense than a 28.

Thanks for the help.

 

[PTK]

28ga is suitable for even home defense, but you need to order specialized loads online (buck, slugs, etc.). I wouldn't use the .410 for much, the 28ga is my personal favorite for overall use.

 

[pps]

Shooting trap with a .410 is VERY humbling. I use the .410 for pesky squirrels, gophers, and the occasional woodpecker around the house. There are a few houses close to mine even though I live out in the country.

That being said, I've never used .410 and home defense in the same breath, though I'd never want to get hit by one.

 

[Guvnor]

Thanks for the replies.

Maybe a 28 would be a better choice then. The only real reason I was thinking of the 410 is because of the availability of buckshot for home defense.

I shoot trap informally so if the 28 can at least break some clays, its good enough for me.

I may use the gun occasionally to hunt at a upland bird preserve...anyone know if a 28 can take down preserve pheasants humanely?

 

[bensdad]

Be careful with the 28. It may be a smaller bore, but it's built around a smaller gun. I have a couple 20s that are more pleasant to shoot than either of my 28s.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

another vote for a 20 ga. you can get 'low recoil' BB rounds for it as well as 'low brass' hunting loads for small game/bird.
a pump may be out for you with a bad wing but SXS (you should look into these IMO) and semi-autos are available.
ammo will be cheaper than 28ga also.
.410 ammo is expensive as well but they are good shottys with right ammo.

 

[sargenv]

You may be better served buying a heavier 12 or 20 gauge and then downloading your ammo to ballistics that match your need for lower recoil. The smaller gauges are built on smaller frames and recoil can sometimes be more than you expect. If you have a side/side or an O/U, you can get tubes fitted to your 12 gauge to fire the smaller gauges which will reduce recoil in and of itself. Since you will have the weight of the gun plus the weight of the tubes.

The 7/8 ounce target load at 1145 fps in the 12 gauge recoils far less than the same load in the 20 gauge. If needed you could likely download your 12 gauge to 3/4 ounce of shot at 1200 fps or less utilizing fast burning powder like red dot or bullseye and a wad with a spacer in it to hold the crimp. It's a little more work, but doable and with less recoil than the factories can make.

 

[Guvnor]

Thanks for the tip, bensdad. I did think of that and as a result im only considering heavier guns like the browning BPS 28 gauge which is listed at 7 pounds.

 

[John Peddie]

After-market recoil pads may be the answer here (Decelerator, Limbsaver).

If you do a search on this forum, you'll find many comments.

This is not a place to try saving pennies-get a good one, properly installed.

I had no idea what a recoil pad could do for me until I added one to my first 12 ga. Night and day difference-and no more black & blue shoulders. I could even shoot the next day-a first for me.

 

[Guvnor]

Thanks guys. Ive considered using a 12 or 20 with very light target loads, but I figure then all I could do is target shoot with it. I would still like to be able to hunt upland birds and a powerful hunting load in a 12 or 20 gauge would do a number on me.

For instance the Fiocchi golden pheasent ammo in 12 gauge is a 1-3/8 oz. load, whereas the same ammo available in 28 gauge is a 7/8 oz. load.

 

[hometheaterman]

I got to try out a .410 when skeet shooting and had 0 problem hitting the skeets with the .410. My uncle who is even a better shot than me was even better. I'm not sure it's the most ideal thing out there but it was rare we were missing them. We were using #6 shot out of it as that's all they had.

 

[ArmedBear]

Be careful with the 28. It may be a smaller bore, but it's built around a smaller gun.

Not necessarily true.

Brownings and SKBs weigh a bit more in 28 than in 20: they're the same guns with smaller bores.

Berettas, Rugers and Guerinis weigh less in 28 than in 20. They're "scaled", i.e. the receiver is smaller on the 28 than the 20.

The Ruger Red Label weighs as much in 20 as a lot of 12 Gauge guns. It balances well, nevertheless. I'd check out a 20 Gauge Red Label.

Also, if you get a Mec Sizemaster and load yourself some 7/8 oz. of #8 or #8.5 shot to go about 1150 fps, you can shoot American Trap very well with a 12 Gauge (maybe not 27 yard handicap, but anything inside 25 is no problem). VERY low recoil, and cheap to shoot as a bonus. Some Trap guns weigh upwards of 9 lbs. That load in a real Trap shotgun has almost zero perceived recoil.

WRT trap with a .410, I do know a couple of guys who both shot 25 at 16 yards on a bet. One of them told me he spent about $1500 to do it, in tickets and ammo. It's not something you do until you're so good at Trap that you're bored with it.

 

[NCsmitty]

Guvnor, regardless of your choice of 28 or 410, for economy sake and for customized loads, do get a MEC loader. It will add a new dimension to your shooting.
Ive been using a 410 Stoeger Condor for shooting clay targets for a while, and love the challenge.

NCsmitty

 

[ArmedBear]

IMO don't get any Mec loader that doesn't include a collet sizer. In single-stage, the Sizemaster is the only one I'd get. In progressives, avoid the 650.

I love the Mecs, but not the cheapest models. They're durable, but shotshells need to be properly sized. Penny wise, pound foolish to save a few bucks that way, IMO.

Take it from someone who has traded off a couple.

(For subgauges in particular, I'd avoid a progressive unless you REALLY know you want one. The Sizemaster is great, zero-frustration, and plenty fast enough to produce shells at the rate I can afford tickets, anyway.)

 

[oneounceload]

You can get 28's that are built on 20 frames. or you can do like I did - get an 1100 and add a mag cap weight making it about 8 pounds, gas operated 28 gauge - about as light-recoiling as there is....Good luck

 

[TAB]

as was mentioned above, a 1100 20 ga has very mild recoil. Even a small child( I was about 55 lbs when I started shooting my youth model)can handle them with easy.

Don't get cuaght up in the whole gauge thing. the reality all guages shoot pellets at the same velocity( assuming they are loaded to the same power levels), the only real diffrence is the ammount of shot.

 

[ArmedBear]

Don't get cuaght up in the whole gauge thing. the reality all guages shoot pellets at the same velocity( assuming they are loaded to the same power levels), the only real diffrence is the ammount of shot.

Hence the load I described above (also available commercially in target loads). 7/8 oz. of shot in a typical 12 Gauge will recoil a good deal less than 7/8 in a typical 20 or 3/4 in a typical 28 -- and it patterns like a dream.

International Trap uses 12 Gauge and 24 grams of shot -- less than 7/8 oz. And American Trap is like Trap with Training Wheels compared to the International version. International Trap shooters do just fine with 24 grams; it's really all you need, given that most Trap is shot with tight chokes anyway. Undersquare loads give you a shorter shot string, and a very even pattern.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

While the 28 gauge may be in some cases built upon a smaller reciever, and so be light resulting in more felt recoil, unless you have a "gun boy" lugging your heavier 20 gauge around, you may find as did my father and his shoulder injury, that a heavy gun is more of a problem in the field walking, than getting a lighter gauge and a recoil pad.

Another option not discussed would be to use Gauge Mate gauge reducers and shoot 28 gauge shells in a light 20 gauge SxS or O/U. I have used 20 gauge shells with my 16 gauge using these, and they work fine. No problem with blowing the pattern. They will split the hulls on the plastic shells so if you do use them you won't be able to reload shells. A Ruger Red Label for example in a 20, shooting 28 gauge shells, might be a very good combination for you.

This would allow you to shoot any shells, and not have to bother with custom reloads, or specialized target loads.

Gauge Mate

LD

 

[ArmedBear]

It is true: for a field gun, weight is a major disadvantage.

Beretta, for example, actually makes "Field" and "Sporting" versions of the same guns. The "Sporting" versions have somewhat longer barrels, and weigh a pound more. This is not without a reason.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I think a good option would be to see how much shot the .410 has and at what velocity, then load to those specifications for a 12. For instance, some .410 have 11/16 oz of shot or even 1/2 oz of shot. 1/2 OZ at about 1100 FPS is probably the lightest I could find, though a 12 with that load might pattern worse than a .410, because the small amount of shot out of a 12 insted of a .410 would make the pattern far less dense. (Am I right?)

Also, I wouldn't want to use a .410 or 28 for defense. I would probably pick a carbine.

 

[Jim Watson]

My gunsmith has Briley Companion 28 ga tubes in his Merkel and they do a number on doves and quail.

The 28 is a standard gauge for NSSA Skeet but might have to reach a bit for Trap. No reason not to try with full choke, better than not shooting.

For home defense, a 28 load of #6 is not going to do an intruder any good, but you might do well to learn to shoot a 12 with reduced recoil buckshot from the hip.

 

[Jim Watson]

Delete double.

 

[Hawk]

One problem which I've only observed with the 28 Ga. is that ownership of one "marks" you as one with copious amounts of disposable income.

Grab a box of 28 shells and wander around the store - you'll get all manner of attention and the "good stuff" will be arrayed before you.

If you call the Beretta Gallery asking about 28 Ga., I've heard they'll send a limo for you.

This is all rumor with at least 3 degrees of separation hence only offered "FWIW". It is my understanding that .410 has no similar stigma.

28 Gauge is also near-unique in that it's priced such that a Dillon SL-900 can pay for itself in a single afternoon if you shoot enough. Spolar's probably the same. Note that .410 toolheads aren't available with the SL-900.

 

[oneounceload]

While by no means a trap expert,, my best score ever, (24) from the 16 yard line was with my 1100 in 28 gauge, a skeet choke, and a box of #8 @ 1200fps.

I love using it for 5 stand and sporting clays - I now pretty much leave the IC barrel in go have some fun. With an 8oz weight I added as mentioned above, this gun has the recoil of a Ruger 10/22.

If you have a decently weighted 12 or 20 and add 28 tubes, you'll have an 8-9 pound gun shooting standard 28 target loads that will be very soft on the shoulder..

Good luck

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

get an 1100 and add a mag cap weight making it about 8 pounds,

What is a "mag cap weight"? Do yo have a link? I'd imagine a gas semi-auto 28 ga with extra weight would indeed be the ultimate pussycat yet effective hunter.