With the threat of Obama taking away our gun rights, I was wondering what it would take for all of us, including pro gun organizations, to form a legal militia? By doing so, we would be in keeping with the 2nd amendment in both categories, a militia, and the right to bear arms. Think about it!
2nd Amendment Form a Militia
- Thread starter tpaw
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freakshow10mm
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1. We already are the militia.
2. The SCOTUS already ruled the Second Amendment is a right of individual citizens and not the collective militia. Militia membership means nothing.
2. The SCOTUS already ruled the Second Amendment is a right of individual citizens and not the collective militia. Militia membership means nothing.
JImbothefiveth
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The court ruled that gun rights are not dependant on being in a militia.
freakshow10mm
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The citizens are the militia.
Look up Heller v DC. The Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment is an individual right.
Federal law defining militia also states that membership in such militia does not entitle one to any more or less rights than anyone else.
In other words, your idea of forming a militia so we can keep our firearms rights is unnecessary as it will be a waste of time.
Look up Heller v DC. The Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment is an individual right.
Federal law defining militia also states that membership in such militia does not entitle one to any more or less rights than anyone else.
In other words, your idea of forming a militia so we can keep our firearms rights is unnecessary as it will be a waste of time.
The Bushmaster
Member
tpaw...Refer to my post in "Legal"...
If you are really that worried about it, alot of states have sanctioned "Defense Forces" that affilated w/ but independent from the NG. Heres a link to Va's
http://www.vdf.virginia.gov/
http://www.vdf.virginia.gov/
MikePGS
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the militia is defined as "Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act." according to the Militia act of 1782. So for a lot of people they already are legally considered the militia. (Surely women, minorities and older people could theoretically sue to be included citing discrimination if they were to inclined). However, Heller ruled that even in spite of that, individuals have the right to possess firearms. Historically, the Bill of Rights is simply a document that recognizes inherent rights that every person is born with and therefore doesn't need to have them granted to them by a governing body. Some of the founding fathers found these so important that they basically made the document so that the government would stay out of these affairs relating to these ten rights. Sadly, modern people like to be cute and try to interpret what is essentially engraved in stone.
The Bushmaster
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I prefer 18 to 60 because we live longer these days...
Correct on the count that we are already the milita. No point in joining anything.
However...
In the terms of joining any type of militia group, I MAY have at one time considered joining one that was aligned with my views AND operated in a legal and above-reproach manner.
But I re-thought this a while back.
When you join ANY group like that, you tie your fate to the most idiotic member of that organization. Its never the intelligent, rational, and decent members that mess up. Its that one guy that talks a good enough game that he slips in and then does something SO idiotic that you all become targets by association.
I learned this when I was planning on joining a fraternal organization a while back... until I saw one of the most disreputable persons I knew and found out that he was a member. There is no way that I would tie my name and reputation to that person.
In short, be careful as to what you join. When you join anything, you tie your fate and reputation to the lowest calibered person of that organization.
-- John
However...
In the terms of joining any type of militia group, I MAY have at one time considered joining one that was aligned with my views AND operated in a legal and above-reproach manner.
But I re-thought this a while back.
When you join ANY group like that, you tie your fate to the most idiotic member of that organization. Its never the intelligent, rational, and decent members that mess up. Its that one guy that talks a good enough game that he slips in and then does something SO idiotic that you all become targets by association.
I learned this when I was planning on joining a fraternal organization a while back... until I saw one of the most disreputable persons I knew and found out that he was a member. There is no way that I would tie my name and reputation to that person.
In short, be careful as to what you join. When you join anything, you tie your fate and reputation to the lowest calibered person of that organization.
-- John
The only "legal" militia is provided for in both state and federal law. Any other paramilitary organization and/or training is illegal in over half of the states. The states have the right to regulate military organizations. See Presser v. Illinois.
armedandsafe
Member
I am so inclined.
I can't run my 4 miles in 30 minutes, climb 14 foot walls, abandon perfectly good airplanes at 30,000 feet, nor fell Babe the Blue with one blow to his forehead, anymore. However, I have still have the skills and patience to lie in wait for the wily predator and reach out and touch him a loving tap.
When a deer who has been shot at that day stops and feeds within 20 feet of me, I know some of my skills are still good.
I AM a militia. Just ask the spanish speaking fellows who thought pickings would be easy, way out here in the country. Don't sell us sneaky, onery, vindictive, little-left-to-lose old pharts short.
Pops
rbernie
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Is that one of them fossilized dinosaur testes?
X-Rap
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There it is again "Heller" yesterday I walked down the mainstreet in my town with an AR in hand and pistol in my pocket. Who can say they have done the same on Pennsylvania Ave. in DC. Heller was a start but until somebody can say they can go about freely, while armed today is not much different than the day before Heller.
I agree about the definition of Militia but also that the Various States have thrown some restrictions on that. Try drilling 1,000 armed men in a field without the Governors approval and see who comes asking questions.
M ammo
Member
I think the point of the thread is to block, any new, restriction from the newly elected.
Stating the formation of a militia a good idea.
I have questions on the same line of thought,, what if you could find a local law enforcement agency add you in as a reserve deputy of some sort?
Just a thought.
I can see militias forming again as they did after Waco, and some other events.
Stating the formation of a militia a good idea.
I have questions on the same line of thought,, what if you could find a local law enforcement agency add you in as a reserve deputy of some sort?
Just a thought.
I can see militias forming again as they did after Waco, and some other events.
MikePGS
Member
If it makes you feel any better, I'm sure most people in this country can't
(somehow, that makes me feel worse)Honestly I guess that would depend on the state. Back when the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was blown up in Oklahoma there were numerous reports about the "Michigan Militia" around here (Metro Detroit). In spite of all the coverage, to the best of my knowledge there was never any discussion about arresting them for anything. I bet in a lot of western states that would hold true to. Downtown San Francisco of course would be another story entirely. It probably helps to that a lot of it seems to be happening on private land.
X-Rap
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Hey I think it would be great if every Sheriff in the country would start a serious reserve element and require real participation, unfortunately those guys are few and far between.
After 911 I said that would have been one of the strongest and cost effective ways to ensure homeland security and keep it out of federal hands by giving it to the 5000 plus county sheriffs.
Alot of us can't make those runs anymore but as said we can sit and wait and watch and know what to do when the time comes.
As for the Militias like that in Michiagan, they may not have gone in and broke them up but rest assured they were probably watched carefully and likely infiltrated. What happened to those guys?
After 911 I said that would have been one of the strongest and cost effective ways to ensure homeland security and keep it out of federal hands by giving it to the 5000 plus county sheriffs.
Alot of us can't make those runs anymore but as said we can sit and wait and watch and know what to do when the time comes.
As for the Militias like that in Michiagan, they may not have gone in and broke them up but rest assured they were probably watched carefully and likely infiltrated. What happened to those guys?
M ammo
Member
True any Sheriff that would do it would be hard to find.
But cost effective for them.. In the long run.
I know liability will be the lynch pin. On that question.
But cost effective for them.. In the long run.
I know liability will be the lynch pin. On that question.
357wheelgunner
Member
I'm 25. Most of the "men" I went to High School with are walking around 20 lbs underweight or 100lbs overweight, wearing bell bottom pants (or whatever other failed syle from 20+ years ago is currently "in") talking about their feelings and "hugging it out" when they get into fights. None of them know how to shoot a gun, but they can work their $400 cell phones and ipods just fine. Our current generation of warriors is lacking, I think most of them would vomit at the thought of a fist fight, much less the idea of running drills to use violence to enforce law and order.
If the Sherriff did something like that, I'd be all about it, but I'm betting I'd be the youngest one there by 10 years.
Quote (I'm 25. Most of the "men" I went to High School with are walking around 20 lbs underweight or 100lbs overweight, wearing bell bottom pants (or whatever other failed syle from 20+ years ago is currently "in") talking about their feelings and "hugging it out" when they get into fights. None of them know how to shoot a gun, but they can work their $400 cell phones and ipods just fine. Our current generation of warriors is lacking, I think most of them would vomit at the thought of a fist fight, much less the idea of running drills to use violence to enforce law and order) This is true; my neighbors kids are grossly overweight,about 20 yrs old,rarely lifted a snow shovel,never washed a car,the only physical activity is lifting a forks to their mouths.young adults today are so out of shape & soft it isnt funny.let them try to march with a 9lb rifle & pack, they would be hospitalized by the end of the day.....
rbernie
Contributing Member
Nobody seems to be taking you up on this, so I'll paste an excerpt of the decision:
ETA - You may think that Presser v. Illinois and its predecessor United States v. Cruikshank are terrible decisions; steaming piles of statist dung that nobody could possibly love. It doesn't matter. They define the legal status of militias.
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M ammo
Member
I don't know about the young guys,
But I did 20 in the Army, As an FO
and am an active 3 Gunner.
I'm what the won't or what the worry about.
But I did 20 in the Army, As an FO
and am an active 3 Gunner.
I'm what the won't or what the worry about.
If you want to join an organization that will work towards gun rights look and see if your state has a chapter of the Citizens Defence League, here in AZ we are a group of volunteers that keep an eye for any legislation that tries to limit gun ownership, there is also volunteer gun lobbyists in washington pushing for pro-gun laws, plus they won't bug you about donations.
www.azcdl.org
www.azcdl.org
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