30-06 vs 308: Where are both Superior?

[Huntolive]

Good morning gentleman
Since most boxing, UFC and sports in general are all pre-recorded these days I thought I'd start a live fight right here

30 ought 6 versus 308
Have at it!

I own at least two rifles in both calibers,
And also have 300 Win Mag and 243 for hunting, as well as 300 WSM (let's not bring shotguns, hunting revolvers or 4570 governor into the picture here).

Where is 30 06 better than 308?
Where is 308 better than 30 ought 6?
What are eaches particular strengths?

Since I own both bolt action and semi-autos (AR 10 and FNAR) in 308 I know I will never get rid of 308 plus I have crates of ammo for it.

But I'm seriously considering selling both by bolt action and Browning BAR 30 ought 6 even though both those rifles are just fine and shoot well, but just to get out of that caliber all together since I have 308 300 Win Mag and 243 I feel like cover all the bases.

Feel free to prove me wrong

 

[jmorris]

Short vs long action and the -06 can have a slight speed advantage. 308 brass is more common in my house but even gas stations out in the sticks sell 30-06.

When it comes to personal opinions about stuff that doesn't matter there is no proving wrong.

 

[coonbait]

with 150gr. bullets both rounds are pretty much the same, the 06 can handle much heaver 220gr bullets

 

[12Bravo20]

Loaded with the same weight and type of bullet, you won't notice much of a difference until you get past 600 yards. The 30-06 has the advantage are farther ranges.

 

[troy fairweather]

There both better when you squeeze the necks down for 7mm bullets.

 

[IdaD]

Not much practical difference. An '06 has slightly more snort for heavier bullets. 308 is a bit cheaper. Shorter action on the latter which doesn't matter any to me but it does to some guys. I prefer the '06 between the two but that's just me. To my mind the '06 and 7mm Mag are the two best and most versatile big game rounds for the Western US. I own smaller and larger calibers but if I had to own just one rifle it would be one of those two, and probably the '06 would be my pick.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

The two rounds are very good fodder for heated arguments about nothing significant.

 

[Charlie98]

duplicate

I don't know why you keep posting duplicate posts! I am offended. My duplicate post is better than your duplicate post!
(Sorry, I couldn't resist the bait for a heated argument...)

IMHO, the .308 is great for about 80% of what the .30-06 does, but it handles lighter (less than 150grn) bullets better because of reduced case volume. The .30-06 takes heavy bullets (~175grn and up...) and handles them better for the opposite reason. The middle ground... 130-170grn... they are pretty much equal, with the nod going to the -06 with greater case volume if you want absolute velocity.

 

[Robert]

It's really a moot point as 375 H&H is clearly the better choice.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

IMHO, the .308 is great for about 80% of what the .30-06 does

And for the remaining 20%, the .308 is even greater.

 

[WisBorn]

The first rifle I ever bought was a left handed model 700 bdl in 30-06 back in 1984. There were only a few manufacturers making left handed rifles at the time in a few calibers. In 1994 I bought my second rifle a lh model 700 bdl in 308. Remington had started making the short action in a few calibers.

I have traded off both rifles years ago, but if I could have one of the two back it would be the 308. The short action was just a little handier. Accuracy was so close between the two rifles and on midsize game both cartriges perform the same.

 

[Slamfire]

The 7.62 development was started during WW2 to make a shorter round that duplicated the 30-06 M2 ball performance. It turns with the improved powders of the time the 30-06 was operating in the lower 40 kpsia range, which was all to the good, so military 30-06 ammunition was not loaded hot. The 7.62 had the same upper pressure limits as the 30-06, but powder technology kept average pressures in the mid 40 kpsia ranges.





The 7.62 round is better adapted for semi automatic and full automatic weapons being shorter, and has a slightly thicker rim than the 30-06.





The cartridge is very straight for its era, and that was a concern at the time, that it did not have enough taper. Lots of taper is good for feed and extraction. Straight taper cartridges require extraordinary efforts in magazine design to get them to feed,



Kludges being what they are, seldom make for reliable functioning. As Scotty said "The more they overthink the plumping the easier it is to stop up the drain"




You will find that the average straight cartridge is supplied in a single stack magazine to get the things directly in line with the chamber. Look at how much angle these straight cartridges are required to take to get into the chamber. Double stack magazines like this are very sensitive to timing and dimensional deviations and you can see, need round nose bullets. I bet it does not feed well with LSWC's!



The 450 Bushmaster is very straight, and if more than five rounds are in a magazine, they jumble up and misfeed.





Which is why all the ads you see are for discontinued ten round 450 Bushmaster magazines.

When the Chinese started from scratch to build an intermediate round of their own, they came up with a round operates in the lower 40 kpsia, uses steel cases, and has lots of taper.



You do know the Chinese are the world leaders in artificial intelligence? Better pay attention to what their computers spit out.


Bart B used to claim the 30-06 could not shoot straight and I think he was full of it.



both of these cartridges were loaded with IMR 4895 which created more air space in the 30-06 than the 308 Win. I believe if loaded with IMR or H4350, the 30-06 group would be as tight as the 7.62. I do believe that Bart B. got into my photobucket account and deleted the above image and cropped it for his own use. It took me a while to re scan as, for some reason, I had not made an electronic duplicate. But this time, I water marked the thing, and I learned to lock my image account from win at all costs posters.

It is my opinion that in a hunting weapon the 30-06 allows more performance, the use of heavier bullets, so it is better as a hunting round in a bolt gun. The 7.62 was a better target round. Still, even in a single shot, the 30-06 is capable of outstanding accuracy.

 

[Random 8]

IMHO... The '06 is better when you're pushing it to the limits with heavy bullets. 180 and up. If I were to hunt moose or big bears with one or the other, I'd absolutely reach for an '06. I think the .308 is a better deer cartridge. I think the 30-06 slings a 150 or 165 a bit too fast for whitetails (obviously if you handload this is a moot point, the .30-06 makes a very good .308 or .300 savage with a lighter powder charge, and this is where mine lives).

There may be some advantages to the .308 in a true short action in terms of weight savings and accuracy potential. There is an advantage for rapid firing with a shorter bolt throw. Try an experiment...take a long action '06, .270 etc bolt gun and maintain proper cheek weld and eyes on target through a scope while you run the bolt. Now do the same with a short action, you'll prove my point.

In general, I think there is little overall advantage to the venerable '06 with modern bullets and powders unless you're getting to the very fringes of the envelope for either cartridge, particularly when an extra heavy bullet is required. You may gain some slight velocity with the '06 loaded to maximum which may come into play at extreme ranges.

 

[mcb]

With modern powders 30-06, due to its extra case volume, can out perform 308 especially with heavy for caliber bullets. Is it enough to make a difference? YMMV

@Slamfire I have self converted 7 rd 450 Bushmaster magazines that run 100%. They run better than factory magazines for me. The feed probable with 450 BM and higher capacity is not the round but the fact that all the magazine are 556 converstion and the curvature is not correct for the straighter 450 BM. If someone actually makes a 450 BM magazine with the proper curvature for the round (and not stuck in that straight magwell of an AR) we could have as much capacity as we felt like carrying. Taper is not nearly as important for a single stack magazine like 450.

 

[Tentwing]

Ginger vs Mary Ann ………… Ford vs Chevy………… you guys are bored

 

[Jim Rau]

If you have one of them, DO NOT sell it to buy the other!

 

[mcb]

Ginger vs Mary Ann ………… Ford vs Chevy………… you guys are bored

Yes! Very! Going turkey hunting later today to get out of the house, going crazy around here.

But there are quantifiable differences.

SAAMI MAP
308 Win 62,000 psi (trans)
30-06 60,000 psi (trans)

Case Volume
308 Win ~56 gr of H20
30-06 ~68 gr of H20

So 308 Win has a about 3% higher pressure limit but 30-06 has about 20% more case volume. That case volume advantage is fairly significant with the right propellents.

As we get heavy for caliber, ie 180gr and up the 30-06 has the potential to push a bullet roughly 200 fps faster than 308 win based on a cursorily survey of Hodgdon's online reloading data, both are using a 24-inch barrel.

For some uses 30-06 offers a ballistic advantage.

 

[TonyAngel]

The difference between a .308 and an -06 is about 200 fps with like bullet weights. Unless you plan on shooting past 600 yards a lot, go with .308. It's easier on the wallet, your shoulder and the rifle. You'll get a good bit more rounds through a .308 before the barrel needs to be replaced. It's also handier. Short action and all.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'd say that there is no logical argument to keep the -06s given what you've stated about already owning and being highly invested in .308 ammo and guns...... 'cept this:

Browning, you say?

BAR, say you further?

I'd have to see the Brownings before I could weigh in truly dispassionately or rationally because; BROWNING, dammit!

Wait - these aren't this Japanese *Brownings*, are they?
But really, even still..... BROWING!

As to clinical number-crunching and debate munching - you have it all covered without -06.

Todd.

 

[Huntolive]

So Apache I take it you like Browning BARs?

I'm getting ready for turkey season 2 button Virginia doesn't start till Saturday I've been doing some scouting with my son and friends and took him for our youth weekend which was last weekend we called in a couple of gobblers from 300 yards away but they skirted us at 80 yards so he hasn't gotten one yet but the season is just starting...
Tomorrow dark and early it's my turn
And No I won't be bringing either a 30 ought 6 or 308that would be unethical.

For just punching paper
Which one reaches out farther 308 or 30 ought 6?
For deer 200 yards and under does either have a clear advantage?
I have been using 180 grain 308 for deer hunting .should I switch to a lower weight?

 

[Dr T]

A million rounds of 7.62x51 weighs less and takes up less room than a million rounds of 30-06. Don't forget the logistics of supplying the battlefield in this discussion.

 

[Huntolive]

Also I have to agree about 375 H&H and 375 Ruger I guess if I could only have one rifle it'd be one of those were much more likely a 300 Win Mag but that's not what this threat is about LOL

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

So Apache I take it you like Browning BARs?

I'm getting ready for turkey season 2 button Virginia doesn't start till Saturday I've been doing some scouting with my son and friends and took him for our youth weekend which was last weekend we called in a couple of gobblers from 300 yards away but they skirted us at 80 yards so he hasn't gotten one yet but the season is just starting...
Tomorrow dark and early it's my turn
And No I won't be bringing either a 30 ought 6 or 308that would be unethical.

For just punching paper
Which one reaches out farther 308 or 30 ought 6?
For deer 200 yards and under does either have a clear advantage?
I have been using 180 grain 308 for deer hunting .should I switch to a lower weight?

Sure do. I have always had a soft spot for Remington 760s and Browning BARs and most particularly in .30-06.

Growing up, it always seemed a specific sort of fella hunted them and those guys were also worthy of great respect - regardless their guns. So, I guess the guns have inherited my elevated opinion as well.

Todd.

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, the only advantage the .30-06 has is with +200gr bullets but I figure if I need a 220gr .30-06, I need a bigger cartridge. The .308 is a better cartridge for deer-sized critters, along with a whole slew of other cartridges. Which is why I view the venerated `06 as a jack of all trades but master of none and the most overrated cartridge of all time.

 

[lightman]

This should be interesting!!!

For the most part they are ballistic twins with a slight advantage going to the '06. Accuracy wise, the 308 probably has a slight advantage. The 308 uses a shorter action which some see as an advantage. Ammo for both are readily available.

After owning and shooting several of each over the decades I don't feel like you would have much of an advantage or disadvantage with either. FWIW, I hunt with a 308 as does my Wife and both Sons. I have already bought one for the oldest Grandson, whenever he grows into it. My Family has probably killed a boxcar full of deer with a 308. I've even managed to win a few matches with one!