30-30 125 gr hp loads too hot????

[bantam9]

Loaded up a string of 30-30 125 gr HP over H4895.
Started at 31 gr and worked up to 35 gr.
Finally shot some of them, and was kinda of surprised. At the 31 gr start load I had primers backing out a bit.
My string of loads went 31, 32, 33, 33.5, 34, 34.5, and 35.0. Never made it past 31.0.
I made 3 rounds of each, all hand weighed. Trickled up to the EXACT weight.
The Hodgdon site starts @ 31.5 and goes to 35.0. Many on line chatter or posts site 31.0 up up 36.0 grains H4895. Here I'm at 31.0 and have primers backing out?????? Not sure what's up here? Seems odd to me that at the starting load I'd have issues. Any thoughts?
The rifle is a Savage 340. It handles store bought ammo well, but I thought it was time to load for it.

 

[morcey2]

Primers backing out is almost always a sign of low pressure, not high pressure. When the firing pin hits the primer, it forces the case forward, away from the boltface. As the primer fires, the pressure initially pushes the primer back against the boltface prior to the case being forced back and re-seating the primer flush with the case head. If there isn't enough pressure, the case head never gets forced/stretched back and the primer protrudes.

It's very common on starting loads in some cartridges. I see it in every Rem/Win/Fed 8mm Mauser load because they're loaded so light. It never happens in any of my handloads.

Matt

 

[Vern Humphrey]

+1.

Try a few heavier loads and see if the problem doesn't go away.

 

[jmr40]

Without a chronograph it is all just a stab in the dark. You have to know how fast they are before any real information is possible.

 

[bantam9]

I don't have a chronograph.
If too low pressure is the issue, suppose I could try some of the middle of the road loads and see the results.
Will update. Thanks

 

[Haxby]

middle of the road loads should take care of it.
An older Hodgdon #26 manual had 35 gr as the start load.

 

[Dr T]

Hodgdon lists the pressure for the starting load of 31.5 gr of H4895 with a 130 gr bullet at 27,600 CUP. The pressure of the 125 gr load should be less. I suspect that the bolt action Savage action is a bit stronger than a Winchester model 94.

BTW, if I can rely on my eyes, it looks like the 340 has been reincarnated as the Walking Varminter, and is available in 223, 204, 22 Hornet and 17 Hornet.

I agree, start a little higher.

But always take care.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

This is why there are starting charges and not just max charges. You are supposed to start there, not below like you did. It's sometimes just as bad to go below the starting charge as going above the max charge.

Like said above, the starting charge oh H4895 for a 130gr bullet on the Hodgdon site is 31.5gr and a max @35.0gr. Start @32.0gr at least and it will work better. I don't have my other books here right now but Lyman and Nosler. Lyman uses IMR4895 with a 125gr bullet and Nosler starts with a 150gr bullet because that's what they sell.

 

[rcmodel]

+1 to all the above.

1. You started below the listed start load.
DON'T DO THAT!!

2. Low pressure backs out primers, not high pressure.

3. You can run increasingly higher and higher pressure until the gun blows up.
And the primers will always be fully seated and flat with the case head.

(Once you get past the low pressure area with not enough pressure to reseat them in the case.))

rc

 

[Scooter22]

+2 on all the above. One other thing about the 325/340 series is the extractor is not real strong so when you get near top loads you may start getting stuck cases. It's not from over pressure. The extractor just loses it's grip. Take that into concideration for hunting loads. You don't want a stuck case in the field. My 325 is a fun, accurate cast boolet shooter. Unfortunately the first model wasn't d&t'd so I have to rely on the barrel sights. But that ok for what I use it for.

 

[Patocazador]

The rifle is a Savage 340. It handles store bought ammo well, but I thought it was time to load for it.

If you have it on hand, 3031 does real good with the Sierra 125 gr. HP in all 3 of my .30-30s. Try it, you might like it.

 

[bantam9]

I only started at 31.0 gr H4895 because although the Hodgdon website lists 31.5
as their start load, they also have a reduced H4895 load paper which lists a 27.2 gr charge I assumed if I could go as low as 27.2, that starting 0.5grs below book start charge shouldn't be an issue. With any other powder I wouldn't have done that.
I did shoot the mid to max charges and seems all had some degree of primers backing out, even if ever so slightly
This is new, never shot Winchester brass, FL sized, trimmed, chamfered,deburred primed with Win LR primers. Could it be the issue is more with the primers, or larger primer pockets in the brass? Seems very odd I'd see this over all grain charges.
That said, 34.0 gr gave me about a 1" group. I'd could be very happy with that as a hunting load. Not sure where to proceed from here??

 

[Haxby]

31 gr was safe. 27.2 is safe. 34 is giving you 1" groups with no sign of pressure.
Different brass and primers might look different, but it sounds like you're good to go with your 34 gr load.

 

[redbullitt]

I have seen 30 06 loads done with RL 22 do that until you get high enough up in the charge range. Low pressure most times if the rifle and headspace etc are all in order.

 

[PCCUSNRET]

Do the primers feel loose when you seat them? You mentioned the commercial loads work fine, any problems with primers backing out of them? I have found I can only get one reload out of some Federal brass using WLR primers but if I switch over to CCI I can get 3 or 4 more loads before the primer pockets are too large to hold the primer tightly. How far are they backing out at 34 grs?

 

[bantam9]

I primed this brass some time ago, and did not make note of anything out of the ordinary about it. So I assume it felt fine when priming them.
This is Winchester brass which was new out of the bag.
I didn't put the calipers to any of the brass to measure back-out, but you could tell visually something wasn't right, as well as running ur fingernail across rim. I'd say they only slightly protrude at 33.5gr and higher.
Maybe I'll try different primers next batch of reloads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You are getting this backwards. As explained to you above, when the round is fired the primer pushes out then pushed back in against the boot face. If the primer is not completely seated it was not pushed back in completely. What you are describing sounds normal.