30-30, coated 165g Missouri Bullet, powder choice?

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SARuger

SARuger

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I just started loading for my 1981 Winchester 94AE.

I put together 30 of the 165g coated MBC's with 30g of 748 and the rifle is very accurate! But, I have other choices in powder and I wonder if one of them is better than what I started with. Or did I just get lucky on the first try?

My current choices are;

CFE223
Reloader 15
Varget
IMR 4895
IMR 4064
BLC-2
and of course, 748.

Trying to shorten the learning curve with others knowledge!
 
Traditional handgun powders for cast bullets are Unique and Red Dot and 2400 (and these days Trail Boss) and the like.

Rifle powders are generally in the faster range, like 4198, 3031, R-7, H4895 and of course 748.
The last two are the only ones I see on your list, although I see load data for H but not for IMR.
Contact Hodgdon, they'll tell you if they have IMR4895 data.
I don't know if you can find lead bullet data for the others you have on hand.

Your load is a known good one. So is 4895 but the handgun powders are amazingly good.

You are right in the middle of the range for 748. Lyman shows 23.8 starting load and 37.3 max load.
 
I have been using H4895 in the 30-30 with cast bullets but only because I can't find the time to try other powders and I knew H4895 would produce acceptable results right off.
 
I have handgun powders and plenty of them;

Unique
2400
231
HS6
IMR 4227
Trail Boss
H110
700X
Bullseye
Universal

I probably have more, thats just from memory.
 
Last edited:
IMR 4895-27.5gr -173 gr GC-1500fps is what i cast/loaded in 30-30. Velocity was out of a 10" barrel T/C. I didnt check velocity in the M94. Would be higher, i guess. Not a coated bullet. Never tried 748, so dont know if better?
 
The 748 shot good but I did not put it on paper, just steel. No idea how consistent it was.

I posted on another forum that I nailed the 250yrd 24" gong 6 out of 15 in (3) five shot rapid fire rounds. I actually knocked the gong off. That was with ghost rings set 3" high at 100yrds.

The range master wasn't happy with me but I did go out and carry it back for him to weld a new chain on!
 
I have never, ever loaded anything other than 748 in my 30-30s.

Never saw the need.
Click to expand...

Conrad, have you loaded any of the 165g coated MBC bullets? I tried 748, I started with a low load and loaded a few. It was clean and no pressure signs but I did not put the gun on paper.

That needs to be my next step.
 
I dunno SARuger. I have found the traditional cast bullet powders to work well. AA5744, IMR4227, IMR4759, and Unique. They may work well in your application as well. I haven't tried the coated bullets, so I cannot say.

If it were a cast bullet, with plain base, lubed with traditional bullet lube, I would recommend keeping it under 1500 fps, a velocity easily doable with the 5744 and 4227, but maybe not with the Unique.

I believe that at the peak pressure for the 30 WCF, what? 30k? 36K psi? that pressure signs would be most faint. I keep my loads within the pressures given in manuals, as I feel it unlikely that I would be able to detect 40k psi, which would be over maximum. It's not like 65k where primers begin to flatten.

YMMV.
 
Finding coated rifle bullet data is like finding gold at the end of a rainbow.

I have worn the laptop out searching today.
 
I found some data on IMR 4227. But I think I will wait until my Lyman cast bullet book comes in.

Thanks for everyone's help
 
I use 5477, IMR4227 and IMR4198 with 170gr cast bullets. Very accurate out of my 2 Marlin 336 micro-groove rifles. Also, works great with 150gr cast. These 3 powders are my go to with cast bullets in 30-30. I try not to push them more than about 1700-1800 fps. My shooting is done mostly within 100 yards with iron sights. These are perfect.
 
I use 5477, IMR4227 and IMR4198 with 170gr cast bullets. Very accurate out of my 2 Marlin 336 micro-groove rifles. Also, works great with 150gr cast. These 3 powders are my go to with cast bullets in 30-30. I try not to push them more than about 1700-1800 fps. My shooting is done mostly within 100 yards with iron sights. These are perfect.
Click to expand...

Do you think I could push the coated bullets faster? And will load data be the same between coated and non coated?

This stuff drives my OCD into overdrive!
 
"Coated" is troubling you, it should not.

The coating makes no difference, it is a lead bullet.
Coated bullets require no wax lube, but they are still lead bullets.
Same same.


Use the same data as lead bullet.
 
SARuger said:
Finding coated rifle bullet data is like finding gold at the end of a rainbow.

I have worn the laptop out searching today.
Click to expand...
ants said:
The coating makes no difference, it is a lead bullet.
Coated bullets require no wax lube, but they are still lead bullets.
Same same.

Use the same data as lead bullet.
Click to expand...
Correct, coated lead bullets are coated lead bullets. The coating replaced the conventional lube that us on most cast bullets. Lead bullet data us the data you need for those coated bullets.

Like I said before, I used H4885 because I knew it would work. Of the powders you listed as handgun powders Trail Boss is probably best. You don't even need specific data since Hodgdon supplies a formula for loading any rifle cartridge with Trail Boss.
http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-Reduced-Loads R_P.pdf

Just remember, DO NOT compress Trail Boss. That will make bad things happen.
 
My Lyman 49th only has one suggestion that is close so I ordered the Lyman cast bullet book to cure my anguish.

The one powder that I do not have is H4895, I have IMR 4895, which has different characteristics as I have read.

I keep reading about IMR 4227 but the Hodgdon reloading sight has no info for using it in rifles.

Maybe I need to order the Hodgdon book as well

I marked a case with one of my bullets last night and plan on hand dipping some Trail Boss into it tonight to get my max load, then do the math for the starting load of 70% of max.

That's three powder options I can look at running tests on.

Almost everything i have read about using cast lead in a 30-30 is to keep muzzle velocity below 1800 and preferably around 1500.

I really need a chronograph :mad:
 
With 30-30 cast bullets, I don't see the point of pushing them any harder than 1700-1800fps. Somewhere in that range seems to be the sweet spot for my rifles. These bullets are cast and alox lubed. You would load cast coated bullets, similarly.
 
I've tried those bullets and they're way too hard. The only powder I got to shoot half way decent was Unique at about 7 grains

Anything slower printed worse than a shot gun at 50 yards. Like missing a man sized target completely. I wouldn't recommend anyone use those bullets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The shooting world is just now coming around to the use of coated boolits. They should be treated juts like any grease lubed boolit as for loads, BUT they can be pushed to higher velocities without leading. AND they don't smoke and stink of burned alox.

Powder coated boolits have been pushed to 2200 FPS without leading, BUT the lead has to be a hard alloy because chamber pressure deforms softer lead.
 
Personally, I like 4895 and 4064 best out of your choices.
I've been using IMR8208 under my cast Lyman 311041 sized to .311" and lubed with Speedgreen. Between 24-26 grains gets you between 1600-1750fps in a 20" barrel. It meters great, is clean burning, unaffected by temperature, and accurate.
 
I admit that I was thinking about something like a moly coated jacketed bullet. I have not used 748 with a cast bullet.

Do these bullets have grease in the grooves too? Gas checks?
 
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