30-30, coated 165g Missouri Bullet, powder choice?

[conrad427]

A quick search on the internets provided some insight into this conversation.

Quite a lot of folks are using 748 with cast bullets, cast kinda hard and grease in the grooves. Should not be a problem for you.

 

[WestKentucky]

I have never, ever loaded anything other than 748 in my 30-30s.

Never saw the need.

Same for me, but make that 3031 as my powder choice. It is wonderful with jacketed loads, but will do well with the coated lead loads. My older books have a lot more lead data than newer books. Lyman 47 I think is where my lead data came from for 30-30.

 

[SARuger]

I admit that I was thinking about something like a moly coated jacketed bullet. I have not used 748 with a cast bullet.

Do these bullets have grease in the grooves too? Gas checks?

No grease or gas checks, just a Brinnel of 18 and HiTek coating.

 

[conrad427]

Not to go too far off the rails, but am I the only one who wants a super short cut version of 3031?

 

[conrad427]

If it does not lead, and shoots well, I would stick with what ever works for you. Interesting coating, the HiTek you speak of.

 

[SARuger]

This is the bullet;http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=233&category=6&secondary=36&keywords=

 

[Comrade Mike]

Comrade, What kind of velocity did you see with 7g of Unique?

I don't own a chronograph so I don't know. Very very light loads though. Felt like shooting a .22

 

[snuffy]

SA, I was referring to comrade's comment that they were too hard. They MUST be hard to be driven hard/fast. Hardness equates to strength. Or resistance to slumping of the boolit because it has a lot of pressure behind it. Slumped boolits deform irregularly, shortening up, destroying accuracy. Richard Lee has it right to list hardness related to pressure in his loading books.

Those hitech boolits look real nice. I decided to go with powder coating because while looking into both processes the hi tech that was available then was a pale sick looking green color. I need to get going on 30 cal coated shooting, I have the molds, lead, rifle, time, but lack the drive and ambition.

I'd really like a thutty-thutty. But all I see used is either junk or over priced used. Forget gun shows, those fools are real proud of whatever they have.

 

[ants]

conrad427
Location: chinook montana

Not to go too far off the rails, but am I the only one who wants a super short cut version of 3031?

Yes, but they already have it. It is called VihtaVuori N130. I laugh with you because it's much harder to find. But it's about half the length and 2/3 the diameter of 3031, meters like it was spherical ball powder, and burns at the same rate. Not surprisingly, it shoots rather well in these old-time cartridges. But it's not sitting on every shelf and doesn't have nearly as much data history for us handloading types. Oh well. But if you find a pound you can afford, it shoots really well! Worth a try.

 

[ants]

Snuffy:

I'd really like a thutty-thutty. But all the rifles see used are either junk or over priced used. Forget gun shows, those fools are real proud of whatever they have.

Oh, is that the truth. Even if not junk, so overpriced you think the mag tube was filled with gold dust and came with the woman of your dreams.

Fortunately for me (over the last 5 years) I met 2 old codgers who wanted someone who really appreciated a good 30-30 rifle. I have 2 of them, and they are wonderful! And then a fellow with a Win M94 in 25-35 with less than one box of ammo through it. Nice!

Just be patient and hang in there. Most of us can find the rifle we want.

 

[ants]

SARuger
Posts: 221 This is the bullet (link to Missouri)

Yes. Excellent bullet. Use 170 grain lead bullet data. It's a lead bullet, painted with a paint coating rather than grease lube.

Bless the shooters who are too freaked out about coated bullet versus any other lead bullet in the load data. THEY ARE THE SAME BULLET.

But if you don't believe us, we're not sure what to tell you. You are running down the wrong road on your own. It is loaded like any 170 grain lead bullet. Not sure what else to tell you.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Instead of laboring over this any longer why not load up a few of each with several of the powders you have and have been recommended and see which are to your and your rifle's liking?

 

[SARuger]

Arch, I plan on doing some load work ups this weekend.

I just have to find good data to start with. My Lyman 49th has data for a 170g lead bullet, I will use that.

 

[Fatelvis]

I admit that I was thinking about something like a moly coated jacketed bullet. I have not used 748 with a cast bullet.Do these bullets have grease in the grooves too? Gas checks?

Yes, they have grease in the grooves and have a crimped on gas-check.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Arch, I plan on doing some load work ups this weekend.

I just have to find good data to start with. My Lyman 49th has data for a 170g lead bullet, I will use that.

I wouldn't worry about the 5gr difference especially since the data is for the heavier bullet. When I loaded that same bullet in mixed 30-30 brass I got very good accuracy out to 50 yards knocking empty 12 ga shotshell cases off the top of the target backer support. I used 20.0 and 21.0gr H4895, 17.0 and 18.0gr H4198 and 9.0gr Trail Boss. The 21.0gr H4895 was most accurate and later on when I sent that load over a chronograph it produced an AV of 1440 fps from a Glenfield levergun. That was the load hitting the empty shotshells.

 

[stubbicatt]

The other day when arriving at come-ups for my 1904 Winchester, I used 15 grains of IMR4227 with the 180 RCBS, with gas check and lubed cast bullet, and got under 2" at 100 yards. I chose the 4227 since I have quite a bit on hand for my 32-40, and I have been quite pleased with its performance in that rifle, breach seated or fixed ammo.

I do not know the velocity in the 30-30. I suppose I ought to drag out the chronograph and do some testing. I intend to load a few at 16 grains and see if it performs better.

HTH.

Regards,
Stubb

 

[popper]

Or did I just get lucky on the first try?

Check for leading. I use the HiTek gold coating for 30 cal, you load is near max jacketed. I'd keep it down to <1800 for any accuracy. Unique/2400 should do it or H4895 downloaded to youth loads. I tried it with a 170 gr cast with 16 gr. of 2400 in 308W AR, no accuracy at all, yes I could hit paper @ 100. Pretty dismal in BO, 30/30 & 308W. Alloy hardness didn't make much diference.

 

[4895]

I've used IMR-4227 with the MBC hi-tek 165 grain bullet. I like it so much I bought another pound of powder so I don't run out. Lyman manual has load data and I found it works well for me.

 

[SARuger]

I finally got my Lyman Cast Bullet hand load book yesterday. I started my ladder loads at 16.5g-17.5g in .3g increments (love the LEE Auto Disc!) of IMR 4227.

Something that I noticed in the 40 or so rounds I have loaded so far is that the coating and some lead is shaved off as the bullet is seated.

What can I do to try to eliminate this? I have little shavings all over my press now.

 

[snuffy]

I finally got my Lyman Cast Bullet hand load book yesterday. I started my ladder loads at 16.5g-17.5g in .3g increments (love the LEE Auto Disc!) of IMR 4227.

Something that I noticed in the 40 or so rounds I have loaded so far is that the coating and some lead is shaved off as the bullet is seated.

What can I do to try to eliminate this? I have little shavings all over my press now.

Whatcha need a ladder for, something wrong with your roof? I don't buy into ladder tests any time, but for cast loads that will most likely only be shot @ 100 yds. or less, you couldn't see any patterns.

You ARE belling the mouth of the cases,, right? Lead boolits in any application NEED to have the case mouth belled. The best way to do this for rifles is the Lyman "M" die. It creates a step from well over the major diameter on the boolit to the diameter to grip the boolit. Another choice is the Lee universal belling die. It simply makes a funnel shaped belling on any case mouth.

 

[SARuger]

You ARE belling the mouth of the cases,, right? Lead boolits in any application NEED to have the case mouth belled. The best way to do this for rifles is the Lyman "M" die. It creates a step from well over the major diameter on the boolit to the diameter to grip the boolit. Another choice is the Lee universal belling die. It simply makes a funnel shaped belling on any case mouth.

Snuffy, I'm using LEE dies and I don't think they bell the case mouths on any of my rifle dies. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Edit: I found this LEE die, is this what I need? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/140461/lee-universal-neck-expanding-die

 

[ArchAngelCD]

That universal die will do what you need done. The Lyman M Die mentioned above is a nicer die but that Lee die will work well too.

 

[res45]

Snuffy, I'm using LEE dies and I don't think they bell the case mouths on any of my rifle dies. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

The dies are fine there designed to work with jacketed bullets as the case mouth doesn't need to be belled. However with cast lead bullets you need to bell the case mouth so as not to shave lead which can case leading as well as accuracy issues because the defect will allow high pressure gasses to leak by.

The Lee Universal Expander is the way to go for rifle cases. You can also purchase custom expander plugs from NOE if you want to expand the case neck to a certain dia. as well as expand the case mouth a couple thousands larger so you don't shave lead off your bullets when seating,nothing wrong with the Lyman M dies either if you want to go that way. I have several of these http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=88&osCsid=kg4bcbe8rujhlmns55a0f3b6t4

I cast and PC all my own rifle and pistol bullets,some get good accuracy with the coating some don't,as I can get the exact same bullet to shoot more accurately without the coating than I can with it. However the coat has it place and I use it when I can.

My three powders for 30-30 loads are 3.5 grs. Alliant Bullseye under a Lee .314" 90 gr. SWC sized to .311" MV runs around 1100 fps. Next I like 7.0 grs. of Alliant Red Dot under a Lee 150 or 170 gr. RNFP lightly lube with Alox/JPW lube once before and after sizing to .311" MV runs around 1250 fps. and I leave the gas check off. For my full house loads I lightly lube apply a gas check with the Lee push through sizer and lightly lube again before loading. I push these loads with 28.0 grs. of H335 for a MV just over 1900 fps.