.30-30 Improved + Leverevolution bullets= .308Win Performance?

[farscott]

I am looking forward to trying the new Hornady ammo in my .35 Remington Marlin 336. Not so much for the extra range as for the fact that holdover between 100 and 200 yards is not as critical. Try as I might, I tend to overestimate distances when in the field, and I have missed high. While I am working at my judging of distances, a little flatter shooting ammo will not hurt me one bit.

 

[pauli]

farscott said what i was about to - forget the range, the real benefit is flatter trajectories.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

farscott said what i was about to - forget the range, the real benefit is flatter trajectories.

Well, I agree that flatter trajectories are one of the advantages to it, but you are hitting with significantly more energy at those extended ranges now, which should help in nailing the animal down closer to where it was shot.

 

[BusMaster007]

I'm excited about this ammunition for my Marlin 1895 in .45-70 & two Winchester 94's in .30-30.
Have you watched the video on the Hornady site? It's worth watching...

My best friend's youngest son is now in his early 20's and looking for a lever-action rifle. His initial idea was a .44, but I'm going to try to convince him to get a .30-30 instead. He does favor the Marlin action already.

As for the idea that this ammo is no real improvement, gimme a break!
Following the old adage for the .45ACP that 'they all fall to hardball', everybody that owns a 1911 style pistol shouldn't have any modern features on it and just use old ammo...
With the improvements in firearms and ammunition available to the modern shooter, we're fortunate to be able to take any advantage we have.

I think instead, the new adage would be:
"...they fall HARDER when the ammo's SMARTER"...

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Any time you have a pointed bullet as compared to a round nose, you will gain velocity for the sheer sake of aerodynamics. That may or may not change ballistic coefficient but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.

 

[antarti]

I'm sure there are more than a few places where heavy woods open up to clearings where you might get a 250-300 yard shot.

... like powerline clearcuts, fields, etc... precisely.

Somewhat flatter trajectory, hits faster/harder at anything beyond "chrono range", and get to keep the classic looks and tube, what's not to like?

I was looking to build a 30-30AI on the Marlin, and was happy to hear these announced, but I'll get a 45-70 instead (been wanting one of those too) if they don't sell the bullets as components.

 

[Master Blaster]

HMM it looks like a shorter bullet as well, what is the Ballisic coefficient of this bullet compared to a normal 30-30?????

They do claim on the website that the muzzle velocity, is UP TO 250 FPS faster.

 

[SteveS]

After the return to the Shire, Jackson wasted a lot of time with lots of boring material. That time would have been better spent on telling the story of how they dealt with the tyranny they found on their return. Also, he wasted a lot of time on the love affair between Strider and the elf, which I do not recall reading about in the book, although it's been a long time since I read it.

I think the love story was mentioned in a footnote or endnote, certainly not to the extent it was in the movie. As to the scouring, I thought it was a good story, but didn't seem to fit well...like it should have been in a subsequent book. I don't know how it would have looked in an already very long movie. I am certainly glad he left out Thom Bombadil, though the fanatics on the fan sites will kill me.

As for the Leverevolution bullets. I just wish they would have made some some hot loads for the .45-70, like Buffalo Bore. I might still try them anyway.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

I don't know how it would have looked in an already very long movie. I am certainly glad he left out Thom Bombadil, though the fanatics on the fan sites will kill me.

I guess that makes me a fanatic, because when I went to see the film I couldn't wait to see how they handled the huge walking dismembered hands with CGI. I remember being disappointed when they made it all the way to the Prancing Poney without having met Bombadil, although I think they might have mentioned him at Elrond's council. I think they said something like, "No, not even Bombadil's powers will be sufficient to hold back Mordor."

I liked the Bombadil part because when reading the book for the first time, I was hoping he was going to join the fight. He seemed like an awesomely powerful character, and I liked imagining how he would use his powers against the Lord of the Rings. Wow! Do we sound like nerds, or what?

 

[Mannlicher]

I am not really running out to by loaded ammo, but......... but if they release this new Hornady 160 grain bullet as a component, then yes, I will work up a load in my Marlin 30-30 Ackley Improved.

I currently load a 150 grain Speer FP to right over 2600fps using 3031 powder. I think with the 160 Leverevolution bullet, I could see 2500 at least.
Now this is not .308 performance, but it is a darn sight better than whatever is out there now for a 30-30.

 

[jerkface11]

Any time you have a pointed bullet as compared to a round nose, you will gain velocity for the sheer sake of aerodynamics. That may or may not change ballistic coefficient but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.

So a plastic tip that's soft enough not to detonate the cartridge in front of it in a tubular mag is rigid enough to keep it's shape when it's flying thru the air? Why do i doubt that.

 

[Warbow]

So a plastic tip that's soft enough not to detonate the cartridge in front of it in a tubular mag is rigid enough to keep it's shape when it's flying thru the air? Why do i doubt that.

How can you doubt it when the exterior ballistics right in front of your nose tell you that there's no doubt it works?

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

So a plastic tip that's soft enough not to detonate the cartridge in front of it in a tubular mag is rigid enough to keep it's shape when it's flying thru the air? Why do i doubt that.

There is no question that it works. It's been verified by a number of independent tests that retained velocity is significantly superior to traditional flat and round nosed bullets. On initial acceleration, the tip will naturally deform (flatten a bit), but it has a memory for its pointed shape, and by the time it reaches the muzzle, it is about back to the pointed shape it started in.

 

[Warbow]

As a quick follow-up to my post above...

Federal 150 gr. FNSP: FPS at 200 yards is 1686; 300 yards is 1399.

Hornady 150 gr. RN: FPS at 200 yards is 1581; 300 yards is 1276.

Winchester 150 gr. Super-X Silvertip: FPS at 200 yards is 1684; 300 yards is 1398.

Hornady 160 gr. Evolution: FPS at 200 yards is 1916; 300 yards is 1699.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Alright according to this story this ammo clocks 2300fps in a 20" marlin.
http://hornady.primediaoutdoors.com/HDstory1.html

Using Pointblank I plugged in the numbers and came up with

1845fps at 200yds, 1643fps at 300 Using a 200yd zero you will be 13.82 inches low at 300yds

Wich incedently is almost the EXACT same trajectory as a 123gr 7.62x39 round.

 

[Art Eatman]

1. .308 rifles can handle 55,000 psi. The .30-30 is a 40,000-psi cartridge so you don't bugger up a lever action that locks at the rear of the bolt. So, no, you can't duplicate .308 performance.

2. The advantage of the new bullets is not a GAIN in velocity at the muzzle. It's in RETAINED velocity out beyond 150 yards from the less resistance to the air.

Art

 

[JohnKSa]

I was looking to build a 30-30AI on the Marlin, and was happy to hear these announced, but I'll get a 45-70 instead (been wanting one of those too) if they don't sell the bullets as components.

As much as I like 45/70, I don't think you're going to get much gain over what's already available for .45/70. Hornady stayed pretty much within SAAMI limits on the 45/70 so you can probably beat the ballistics by simply choosing one of the loadings on the market that dramatically boosts muzzle velocity over what the .45/70 Leverevolution ammo gives.

Art,

Agreed. The title was a bit provocative, no? I'm really not saying that you're going to duplicate .308 performance, but the combination of the added velocity of the .30-30AI and the better ballistics from the Leverevolution bullets should narrow the gap considerably.

 

[Grayrock]

And we all know that Stridex should have had a 336 loaded with the LeverEvolution fodder to make mincemeat out of orcs at 300 yards. Even Goodgulf might have been impressed with a full mag of .30-30's that looked like spitzers. But Gimlet would have disdained the weapon for something a little more mano-a-mano.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

And we all know that Stridex should have had a 336 loaded with the LeverEvolution fodder to make mincemeat out of orcs at 300 yards. Even Goodgulf might have been impressed with a full mag of .30-30's that looked like spitzers. But Gimlet would have disdained the weapon for something a little more mano-a-mano.

Indeed. A modern rifle displaced in time might seem to the locals like a power comparable to a God's. Of course, an authentic white wizard, such as "Goodgulf," could simply cause it to snap in two with a wave of his hand, and since Goodgulf himself (I assume you mean Gandalf) acknowledged that the Ring Lord was more powerful than he, I don't think that even a modern rifleman would be up to the task of taking on Mordor.

PS, If I hear any of you guys calling us Lord Of The Rings fans nerds, you will have to take it up with Colonel Jeff Cooper. He lists those books as must reads for all properly educated men. They are on his short list of all time favorites.

 

[MCgunner]

Arguing against something improved, must be a 1911 guy.

I had a box magazine Savage M340 at one time. I handloaded spitzer 150s for it, shot a few deer with it, and they worked. They were Sierras at about 2400 fps. I couldn't safely get any more velocity out of it, but the better ballistic coefficient of that bullet gave me 300 yard usefulness and the gun was ACCURATE. The standard flat nosed traditional .30-30 bullet sheds velocity like a .44 mag bullet, well, not that bad, but you get the drift here. I could have used that load in a lever gun, but I'd have had to load one in the barrel and one in the magazine due to the risk of chain firing it. Two shots is plenty for a deer rifle, though. Nostler ballistic tips would keep the magazine follower from damaging the bullet tip, too.

Just some thoughts. I'd definitely try the stuff if I had a .30-30! I don't handload for NOTHING. A handloader is always looking for an improvement, after all!