.30-30 into 25-35; Some general reforming questions

[beefyz]

Even though I secured new Hornady brass, this idea intrigued me, especially since .30-30 is so much easier to find. I have NEVER had to anneal or reform brass before. I found an old article by Ed Harris who stated " reform the .30-30 brass in a 2 step process. Decap & partially form the neck a shoulder in a 25-35 die, without finishing the case taper. After pre-forming , case necks are gas annealed. Then full length resize in a second pass without buckling the shoulder. Trim cases to 25-35 length. You don't need to ream the case necks as long as the brass is formed in 2 stages with an inter-draw anneal in between."
I tried this and I cremated the first few cases, my bad. After reading up on this and watching a few videos on YouTube, I think I got this down. I tried annealing again, successfully this time, and a few minutes later put the cases through the second pass. Almost all the new shoulders were wrinkled or dented. I used less Imperial and this cleared up the wrinkling /denting to some extent, but it was still evident. I did not buckle any of the shoulders. I stopped after 15 thinking it was a lost cause. A few days later with 15 more preformed cases, I tried again. Fifteen perfect .30-30s into 25-35s. Why ? All I did that was different from the first attempt was the sizing die was re-adjusted and/or the 15 case necks had thoroughly cooled down after being partially reformed a few days prior. I compared them to new 25-35 cases and they all looked the same.
All this leads me to ask a few questions about reforming brass in general, especially since I had never done it before.
1- How safe is annealing ? It can be overdone, right, to the point that it could fail in a subsequent firing? Some of my original tries have a "pinkish" tone to them at the neck/shoulder.
2-What happens then ? Can the gun sustain a burst neck,shoulder, or case ?
3- In the example of minor dents or stretch marks/wrinkles; I believe these will reform upon firing, but is that still a "weakened" case and should not be used ?
4- Should a pronounced DENT be discarded ?
5-Are reformed cases inherently weak/weakened ? I mean, you did take something made as something else, and turned it into something different.
Would appreciate some guidance here.
Thanks

 

[Don McDowell]

Yes you can overdo annealing, making the brass to soft. Unless you're using old fired 30-30 cases, I'ld skip the annealing.
Going from 30-30 to 25-35, just make sure you use plenty of case lube, and simply run those cases thru the die.

 

[30Cal]

Small dents don't matter. Once you start seeing them, you'll need to pull the die apart and clean it out if you want to really put a halt to it. Keep the lube below the shoulder by a fair amount. Creases can't be fixed. A lot of other stuff will work out just fine provided you can get it to the point where you can seat a bullet and chamber it.

Annealling can be overdone. With a 1.5" flame, should be about 5-6 seconds for a case of 30-30'ish size case to get it to a very dull red (turn the lights down low). You're doing just the neck area.

 

[Dog Soldier]

The process for better case life after reforming is fire forming. Fire form the brass with a light load. Fire form these loads to your rifle's chamber. Then load the cases as you choose.

 

[ants]

I quit annealing when reforming 30-30 to 23-35. I just go slow and do it in small steps. Easy does it.
I only crush one case out of 20 or 25, and 30-30 brass is plentiful so losing one isn't a tragedy.
First I form with the expander removed from the full length sizing die.
I go back later with the expander installed when I actually charge and seat.
I suspect a lot of it is in the technique, which is why you returned after a few days rest and succeeded.
You were rested and refreshed, you readjusted the dies, and hit on a good rhythm.

These days I find enough real 23-35 brass to load and shoot.
I don't shoot 200 or 300 rounds from my 25-35 per day,
so a couple dozen rounds is sufficient.
Pressure is so low, a case goes half dozen cycles.
A little goes a long way.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You can do annealing to the correct temperature by using a temperature sensing paste or liquid. One of the most popular is Tempilaq which is available many places.

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetL...&Ns=p_metric_sales_velocity%7C1&Ntpc=1&Ntpr=1

Changes start at about 450 F and you need 650 F for several minutes to properly anneal brass cases. Since that is difficult many reloaders will heat to 750 F and then tip the case into a pan of water. You buy 750 degrees paste and you will get perfectly annealed cases every time.

 

[beefyz]

Thanks guys. I may have "hit that rhythm". I've made about 50 25-35s from .30-30s. 40 or so look perfect, the other 10 have small or a few creases or dents in them. I'm surprised I didn't crush any necks? Hopefully i'll get some life out of these cases as i'm shooting 90% lead and therefore reduced loadings. The few I load to specs are with the Hornady 117s where i'm usually 1900/2100 fps. This '94 carbine is a hoot to shoot and can be done all day.

 

[witchhunter]

One of my favorites! Just go slow as you've figured out, and load those with dented necks too. Once you shoot em, they will look perfect. Necks may need to be turned, but maybe not depending on the rifle's chamber and the brass that you are using. make sure and trim to length though. Enjoy the 25/35! Both my boys killed their first bears with it.