30-30 load development and casual observations

[DMW1116]

Well that worked well. The firing pin hit pretty good and went off. Now to load a few and see how they work.

I’ve been thinking of mounting a scope on the 30-30 for actual load testing. This seem like a good time to do so. I have a 4x Simmons not mounted to anything at the moment that would be sufficient for cast loads at cast distances. It’s a rimfire scope so the parallax is set for 50 yards but I can probably stretch it to 100 without too much trouble. I have three combos I want to try out and I’m not confident in my iron sight shooting ability for telling differences in small charges and small changes.

1. 135 grain Acme with W231 powder and large pistol primers.
2. 165 grain MBC and H335
3. Confirm 160 grain FTX and LEVERevolution powder

Any guesses as to whether the scope will hold up to the jacketed load? I’ll probably get some Weaver Quad Lock Rings. I’ve always liked them but never tried them. Maybe a set for rimfire 3/8” dovetail is also in order to replace the crappy rings that came with the scope.

 

[AJC1]

I’ve been thinking of mounting a scope on the 30-30 for actual load testing. This seem like a good time to do so. I have a 4x Simmons not mounted to anything at the moment that would be sufficient for cast loads at cast distances. It’s a rimfire scope so the parallax is set for 50 yards but I can probably stretch it to 100 without too much trouble. I have three combos I want to try out and I’m not confident in my iron sight shooting ability for telling differences in small charges and small changes.

1. 135 grain Acme with W231 powder and large pistol primers.
2. 165 grain MBC and H335
3. Confirm 160 grain FTX and LEVERevolution powder

Any guesses as to whether the scope will hold up to the jacketed load? I’ll probably get some Weaver Quad Lock Rings. I’ve always liked them but never tried them. Maybe a set for rimfire 3/8” dovetail is also in order to replace the crappy rings that came with the scope.

I have a rail sitting in the box for either of the 1894 marlins and I've not mounted it yet... I had the same idea for testing.

 

[Toprudder]

I’ve been thinking of mounting a scope on the 30-30 for actual load testing.

I added a tang peep sight to my Win 94. That worked well for my load development, but I was only shooting to 50 yards.
In one load workup I did, I had two groups with three out of four holes touching.

I did mount a Weaver 4x scouting scope to a Rossi 20” 44 mag rifle. I really love that combination.

 

[n2omike]

Curious...
I'm 55 now, and got my first reloading kit before I had a driver's license. 30-30 was one of the calibers I wanted to reload for.
There was a powder that data was showing worked better than anything else for this caliber, called Reloader 11.
It was discontinued way back then when I was looking for it.
Was curious if anyone knew the story behind it, or if there was a modern equivalent.
Thanks

PS... I did find this:

reloader 11 powder recipes from Lyman manual 1967

A friend asked me if i knew what he could reload with 3 pounds of old reloader 11 powder he came across. After he failed to find any recipes I consulted the reloading guides I inherited from my father. The Lyman manual lists several rifle recipes for RX 11 or reloader 11 powder. Starting...

castboolits.gunloads.com

Hercules Reloder 11 and 21

I was out today and saw some of this at a shop. Small square metal cans, 16 oz. I know that the older Lyman manual has data on them, does anyone here have experience with either of them?

castboolits.gunloads.com

 

[DMW1116]

If Amazon sold bullets and guns like they do scope rings I’d be there everyday. My new rings are already here. Now to mount a scope and make some 30-30 loads.

 

[AJC1]

If Amazon sold bullets and guns like they do scope rings I’d be there everyday. My new rings are already here. Now to mount a scope and make some 30-30 loads.

I got lazy when I found the berry's and blued dot load, and need to get back on it. Been focused on 38-44 with the 358429 boolit. Can't wait for your fresh ideas and testing....

 

[DMW1116]

What Berrys load do you speak of?

This should be pretty fun. I haven’t had a scope on this rifle in years.

 

[AJC1]

What Berrys load do you speak of?

This should be pretty fun. I haven’t had a scope on this rifle in years.

I'm loading 15.8 bd at 2.550 with the 150.. really fun to shoot.

 

[DMW1116]

Interesting. I had sworn off Berrys because they were more than jacketed bullets in terms of cost. I’ll see how low I can find them.

Got the Williams sights removed and the scope mounted in the new Weaver Quad Lock rings. I see why they don’t make low rings. These are medium and the rear bell just clears the hammer spur. Since this is a repurposed rimfire scope (4x32), it doesn’t overpower the rifle. I didn’t want to take out the bolt for bore sighting so we’ll just start with a mechanical zero, which is already set.

First up will be some H335 and 165 grain MBS WT#4 loads. I want to push these around the 1600 fps mark and get about 1000 ft-lbs. Based on my last tests I think the best accuracy will be just under that mark but that’s ok. I’m going to run down to 17 grains and up to 19.2. If the group at 19.6 was headed in the right direction, running down from there should keep it going. I’m also going to qualify the use of Sharpie markers on the bullets and see if I can see the marks on the new targets I bought.

 

[DMW1116]

Boy that mechanical zero thing is a bunch of crap man. I sent the first round straight through my target stand leg.

 

[DMW1116]

I also stretched the W231 and 135 grain Acme loads out to 100 yards. These are some old ones using LRP. They are pretty tight windage wise. There is some vertical stringing though. I guess this is due to some larger than desired velocity variations?

Overall they are probably a 2.5”-3” load at 100 yards. Maybe I can tighten up the vertical stringing when I run a ladder using the LPP.

 

[DMW1116]

Obligatory pictures


The blue marked ones are the 30-30 rounds at 50 yards. The others are some errant 357 rounds. The high shot at 9 was in preparation for moving to 100 which is below.


Somewhere close to 2.5”. I’m going to call that zeroed for purposes of cast bullet testing for the next couple sessions. I tried marking my bullets with Sharpie but can’t see them on this paper. This is the first time I’ve tried this target style though and I quite like them. These two were also recycled for the pistol range. 30 caliber and 357 caliber holes are different enough I can tell right off.

 

[AJC1]

Obligatory pictures

View attachment 1170871
The blue marked ones are the 30-30 rounds at 50 yards. The others are some errant 357 rounds. The high shot at 9 was in preparation for moving to 100 which is below.

View attachment 1170872
Somewhere close to 2.5”. I’m going to call that zeroed for purposes of cast bullet testing for the next couple sessions. I tried marking my bullets with Sharpie but can’t see them on this paper. This is the first time I’ve tried this target style though and I quite like them. These two were also recycled for the pistol range. 30 caliber and 357 caliber holes are different enough I can tell right off.

So because I find myself in a simular situation, are you testing the load or the boolit. I understand it's a combined test, but as I dab my toes into casting rifle, I wonder if my bullets are not the weaker of the two things being tested. To be honest my skill on iron sights might also be in question

 

[DMW1116]

Well, on that target I was using a load I am pretty confident shoots consistently to sight in for future testing. Overall I’m trying the loads I guess. The powder, primer, and bullet combination.

I hope I can find a good shooting load with W231, the Acme Bullet, and the LPP. That’s about as cheap a load as I can get right now for practice with iron sights in a rifle. The Acme Bullet and H335 shows potential to shoot a little better for a nominal increase in cost but requires LRP. Currently these are very hard to find.

The MBC WT#4 is more a test of the bullet to see if it will shoot better with the larger diameter combined with the Marlin microgroove rifling.

I know what you mean about iron sights. After testing, this scope may stay for a while. After the cast testing is done I may try some jacketed loads and see if this scope will hold zero.

 

[DMW1116]

Are you using aperture or open sights? Either way a dedicated iron sight target will help. Some spray paint and gorilla tape go a long way.

 

[AJC1]

What Berrys load do you speak of?

This should be pretty fun. I haven’t had a scope on this rifle in years.

Finally got the numbers on that blue dot with berry's load 1789fps 5 shot average 40es 14sd. It's my first data set for 30-30 but those don't seem like bad numbers.

 

[DMW1116]

That's pretty hot for a plated bullet. That's within Berry's recommended range?

I was rummaging around and found a few 150 grain JRN bullets from Hornady. I don't know how regular soft point bullets work, but I know these definitely expand as advertised. I may use these as my 1000 ft-lb HD/SD load and start at the minimum for the 165 grain cast MBC bullets. No leading issue with the 150 JRN, as I've pushed them as hard as LeverEvolution will let me. Well that and they're jacketed. I hit my push pin holding my target and that one went from 0.308" diameter to making a 1" hole in the target in just the length of the push pin plastic head. It also melted the plastic and splattered it on the target.

Of course, the 135 grain Acme did the same thing when hitting the target stand leg. It was a 0.3095" hole going in the front and blew a 3/4" hole coming out the back, in just 3/4" of travel. I don't think it expanded, but it made a big hole. That portion of the leg was reinforced with Gorilla tape (targets and target reinforcement - it does it all), so plastic just didn't shatter and go everywhere. Some pieces were definitely missing though. They weren't on the ground near the target stand either.

 

[AJC1]

That's pretty hot for a plated bullet. That's within Berry's recommended range?

I was rummaging around and found a few 150 grain JRN bullets from Hornady. I don't know how regular soft point bullets work, but I know these definitely expand as advertised. I may use these as my 1000 ft-lb HD/SD load and start at the minimum for the 165 grain cast MBC bullets. No leading issue with the 150 JRN, as I've pushed them as hard as LeverEvolution will let me. Well that and they're jacketed. I hit my push pin holding my target and that one went from 0.308" diameter to making a 1" hole in the target in just the length of the push pin plastic head. It also melted the plastic and splattered it on the target.

Of course, the 135 grain Acme did the same thing when hitting the target stand leg. It was a 0.3095" hole going in the front and blew a 3/4" hole coming out the back, in just 3/4" of travel. I don't think it expanded, but it made a big hole. That portion of the leg was reinforced with Gorilla tape (targets and target reinforcement - it does it all), so plastic just didn't shatter and go everywhere. Some pieces were definitely missing though. They weren't on the ground near the target stand either.

Berry's 30-30 bullet is rated to 2000fps, according to their site... I thought this was a wonderful load long before the data so it didn't really move me one way or the other.

 

[DMW1116]

Oh, I'm used to their 9mm plated bullets. Those are limited to 1250 or so fps. I bet those work great. I found some, but I don't need 1000 of them which was the only quantity available. It'll take the rest of the year to use the cast 30-30 bullets I have now.

 

[AJC1]

Water volume checked 5 pieces of RP 30-30 brass that I shot today. They are 2x fired and were annealed when I picked them up at the range to prevent cracks while they fully fire form.

 

[DMW1116]

That’s all looks pretty good. Some of the brass I found yesterday was RP 30-30. It’s one of my favorite brands.

 

[AJC1]

Water volume tested 2x fired and annealed federal cases this morning. The average was 45.54 grains of water about .9 grains less than RP.

 

[DMW1116]

I know I've just turned my 30-30 into a zesty 9mm with 1/3 the capacity, but these lower-level loads are fun to shoot. It looks like it's Acme cast 135 grain bullets, W231 powder, and Large Pistol Primers from now on. These were even the pulled bullets from recovering the 2400 powder from the 30-30 cases. Also, that scope is going to stay put for a while, I think. I may upgrade to a 2-7x32 variable eventually, but this thing works pretty well out to 100 yards with a fixed 4x. I still plan to run the ladder test with H335 and MBC 165 grain WT#4 bullets, but for a cheap target or small game load this is pretty hard to beat. Now I'm off to find more LPP.

 

[DMW1116]

I would have shot more, but I only loaded 4 because I wasn't sure the LPP would actually set off 6 grains of powder in a full-size case, even though I tested one and the hammer and firing pin definitely set off the LPP. I already pulled these once. I'm not doing it again. The LPP seat a little deeper than the LRP so I wasn't sure about that part.

 

[AJC1]

I know I've just turned my 30-30 into a zesty 9mm with 1/3 the capacity, but these lower-level loads are fun to shoot. It looks like it's Acme cast 135 grain bullets, W231 powder, and Large Pistol Primers from now on. These were even the pulled bullets from recovering the 2400 powder from the 30-30 cases. Also, that scope is going to stay put for a while, I think. I may upgrade to a 2-7x32 variable eventually, but this thing works pretty well out to 100 yards with a fixed 4x. I still plan to run the ladder test with H335 and MBC 165 grain WT#4 bullets, but for a cheap target or small game load this is pretty hard to beat. Now I'm off to find more LPP.


View attachment 1171335

You converted a deer gun into a rabbit gun