.30 can on a 5.56mm?

[Strykervet]

Been looking at cans. Was looking at the AAC SPR or whatever, the nice one for the 5.56. Claims higher reduction than the M4-2000. Then I read that you can use their SDN-6 on the 5.56 and I read elsewhere that the noise reduction is similar to the M4-1000. Basically, it would be about 5-9 dB louder. Now I know this scale is exponential, but I also know the sound is subjective.

Has anyone used this on a 5.56? Would I be better off getting both, or can I be served well by one? The only ones I have experience with are the smaller military ones (can't recall the maker, but they are short and not all that quiet, just good enough to mask your position and save your ears indoors) and a S&H integrally suppressed MkII that was so quiet the only sound was the bullet hitting the can we were shooting.

We really need these things at a rental range or something. The good news is that although my wife isn't that excited about firearms in general, as it turns out, she is very excited about NFA items (go figure!). She wants a suppressed MkII more than I do I think, and I just found out she wants to masterkey the M4 (why?). So getting both isn't really a problem, particularly if it is worth it. So my question isn't "will it work" but rather, "is it worth it" --does it work "better enough" to justify the cost?

 

[mtrmn]

I can't speak from experience because I'm still waiting on my Form 4 on a YHM titanium 7.62 Phantom. It's QD mounted and will fit the 5.56 QD mount as well. I did a lot of reading and research and a lot of the people using these things on 5.56 really seemed to prefer the sound of the 7.62 can on the 5.56.

It will be my first can and I wanted it to fit as many of my guns as possible. Light, interchangeable, relatively cheap, looks like the ticket for me. May want to look at them before you throw that money down.

 

[Strykervet]

Yeah, from what I've read, the 5.56 can't be suppressed enough to warrant a dedicated can. Having had 5.56 rounds go overhead from several hundred meters, I can attest to how loud the sonic crack is. Sounds like a whip snapping but very loudly from all directions, while the gunshot is so far away it isn't loud at all (but does sound like a gunshot and you can tell where it came from).

I've heard the cans for the 7.62 reduce the report almost as good as the dedicated 5.56 cans. A guy at a store said yesterday that the SDN6 is only about 3dB higher than the dedicated cans. Again, the only exp. with 5.56 cans are the military ones from ten years ago. They sounded like an unsuppressed .22 rifle but ever so slightly louder, mostly from the sonic crack. The cans were fairly short.

So I guess what I am looking for at this point is for someone with an opposite view. Does anyone out there have both cans and claim a significant difference? Would the one 7.62 have satisfied you? Or is the dedicated 5.56 can much more than just a convenience?

 

[GoingQuiet]

The thing about what you are proposing is that the theme here is 1 can - multiple options.

For many folks, the hassle of going through the process ONCE is bad enough so they hate to have to do it on two items with two tax stamps.

That having been said - running 7.62 product on 5.56 projectiles is nothing new. You do not get OPTIMAL performance but it does work.

(Shameless plug: I have the SPR and SDN6 in stock)

 

[wally]

The YHM QD became a lot less attractive for me when I started trying to actually buy the QD mounts for the rifles I wanted it on before ordering the can.

I'll probably go with the GemTech HVT-QD as they appear to be ready to actually ship the mounts I want.

 

[mtrmn]

I just bought a 5/8 X 24 YHM 7.62 adapter from Midway after they were out of stock for months, so they may be coming back. Just FYI

 

[Strykervet]

The thing about what you are proposing is that the theme here is 1 can - multiple options.

For many folks, the hassle of going through the process ONCE is bad enough so they hate to have to do it on two items with two tax stamps.

That having been said - running 7.62 product on 5.56 projectiles is nothing new. You do not get OPTIMAL performance but it does work.

(Shameless plug: I have the SPR and SDN6 in stock)

I hope you read this.

You have the two suppressors that I would like to compare (well, I'd get the M42000 when I could, but only because of the mount). How do they compare to one another, the SDN6 and the SPR? Knowing what you know now about how they compare, would you still get the SPR? (Assuming you wanted suppressors for a .338, a MKIII, and some pistol calibre as well as the 7.62 with muliple hosts.) Would you be satisfied with just the SDN6 in order to get the others quicker, or would the SPR still be a priority in the list?

I just got my trust yesterday. So I can get as much stuff as I want, the paperwork isn't really the hassle. I was in the army and I deal with the VA, so the paperwork and the wait for this is nothing in comparison. I've had to wait this long anyway. I just don't want to spend the money for a 5.56 suppressor when the 7.62 will do the job well, but if the 5.56 can is really worth it, I'll do it somewhere down the line.

My problem is that I can't try any out --at least I don't think I can. I can fondle them, but I can fondle a deoderant can for what its worth. So I'm sort of depending on the opinion of those that have compared the SDN6 to the M42000 or SPR.

I just got three Blackout 51T flash hiders, one to be perm. mounted on an M4 barrel, one for the Grendel, and one for an FAL. I'll do the .300BLK down the road, really looking foward to that. So I'm sort of committed to AAC, they are kind of popular around here anyway. And if the SDN6 isn't THE can for the M4, I can always get the M42000, but that will be about the limit of my choices for now.

 

[wally]

I just bought a 5/8 X 24 YHM 7.62 adapter from Midway after they were out of stock for months, so they may be coming back. Just FYI

YHM needs to get it together, they lost my order to Gemtech HVT-QD as all the adapters I need are in stock at my dealer, now the long wait begins again, maybe a nice Xmas present

 

[RhinoDefense]

Shooting a 5.56 through a can designed for a 7.62 will add 3-5dB on average. Your ears will not notice the difference.

In reality, there is no such thing as a hearing safe silencer for semi-automatic supersonic rifles. You will suppress the gunshot, but the bullet is still supersonic and its sound signature in flight still does meet or exceed the 140dB threshold for permanent hearing damage. If you shoot subsonic ammunition with a suppressor, then you're hearing safe.

A 5.56 can on a 5.56 rifle will be a bit quieter than a 7.62 on a 5.56, but neither will be hearing safe with supersonic ammunition. The tradeoff is convenience of one silencer for multiple guns versus weight.

 

[Strykervet]

Thanks guys, I knew a lot already from researching it, and you confirmed that.

I went with AAC, mainly beause of mounts and reputation. As far as mounts I got the Brakeout 5.56mm blind pinned on my LMT barrl, a Boeing welder did a GREAT job on it. Closest I can get to SBR, SBS, or FA. We can have AOW, DD, and suppressors. So this M4 is a SOPMOD copy of what I had in the army, same KAC rail, grip light, RX01 Trijicon, KAC flip rear, milspec everything --only changes are the SD-3G trigger and this Brakeout (which does look pretty cool).

But I also have very similar Blackout flash hider 51T ratchet mounts on an FAL (that I just put a Jard trigger in, if you have an FAL and are very handy and patient, check it out, you can get a very fine candy cane trigger, good for 3gun, in an FAL!!!) a 6.5G, and a .300BLK. So I can use all three on there, plus I can get a variety of other .30 and under barrels and it will work with most. Was thinking about maybe Armalite in some calibre, and then another in .338Rem (which I think could be worked into a subsonic load, I don't know) but that would of course need a custom can.

Perhaps later I'll spring for the M4-2000, but the wife wants the S&H integrally suppresed MKIII (yeah, she's pretty cool) first, and I'd like to build the .300BLK and I'd also like to build an integrally suppressed .338Lapua, .408Cheytac, or .416Barrett repeater bolt gun. I prefer the .416Barrett, but limited places to let it run, special loading tools, etc. will probably force me into .338. Maybe a 10mm suppressor (I have an affinity for 10mm, the 200gr. subsonic should work well in a 10mm because the diameter is similar in size to a 9mm, but much heavier. Plus I have two 10mm Glocks, a G27 .40, plan on a Smith 10mm, and I also think that maybe the 10mm suppressor would be sufficient for a 9mm --they are so close in diameter. Some other integrals I'm interested are the oddball SSK stuff and similar designs. Like that .510 with the short brass, the Ruger 10/44, few others.

Yeah, I got sold on AAC's mounts. Just being able to get one can to start with is great and being able to use it on four different rifles, just awesome. Makes getting the MKIII quicker. We got a firearms trust though, and I found out my wife is big into NFA items, so we'll probably end up with totally useless (save fun trips in the desert) new M203 grenade launcher and mount it under my older M4 just for giggles. A 20mm (why .50BMG when you can NFA it?) custom rifle built on a cannon barrel. There are some barrels close by for sale. Maybe a Serbu, a briefcase gun, umbrella gun, cane gun --all when I get my mill and lathe at home, all if the hopefully not too distant future!

Yeah, I got bit by the NFA bug HARD. Was always interested, then moved to WA, now that I can get suppressors and I have trust... Oh yeah!

 

[Zak Smith]

Usually integrally suppressed barrels are used with subsonic or near subsonic cartridges, in part because they bleed pressure from the barrel at mid points on the barrel. With this in mind, I don't see the point of hamstringing extreme long range cartridges such as .338LM, .408, etc.

 

[GoingQuiet]

You hoped right, however my internet browsing time is rather limited.

I don't how how they compare. I haven't shot them against each other. I am the dealer you come to when you say I want ______. I am not the dealer you come to when you say please compare ______ to _______. Not trying to give you a hard time, that's just the truth.

I hope you read this.

You have the two suppressors that I would like to compare (well, I'd get the M42000 when I could, but only because of the mount). How do they compare to one another, the SDN6 and the SPR? Knowing what you know now about how they compare, would you still get the SPR? (Assuming you wanted suppressors for a .338, a MKIII, and some pistol calibre as well as the 7.62 with muliple hosts.) Would you be satisfied with just the SDN6 in order to get the others quicker, or would the SPR still be a priority in the list?

I just got my trust yesterday. So I can get as much stuff as I want, the paperwork isn't really the hassle. I was in the army and I deal with the VA, so the paperwork and the wait for this is nothing in comparison. I've had to wait this long anyway. I just don't want to spend the money for a 5.56 suppressor when the 7.62 will do the job well, but if the 5.56 can is really worth it, I'll do it somewhere down the line.

My problem is that I can't try any out --at least I don't think I can. I can fondle them, but I can fondle a deoderant can for what its worth. So I'm sort of depending on the opinion of those that have compared the SDN6 to the M42000 or SPR.

I just got three Blackout 51T flash hiders, one to be perm. mounted on an M4 barrel, one for the Grendel, and one for an FAL. I'll do the .300BLK down the road, really looking foward to that. So I'm sort of committed to AAC, they are kind of popular around here anyway. And if the SDN6 isn't THE can for the M4, I can always get the M42000, but that will be about the limit of my choices for now.

 

[Ranb]

In reality, there is no such thing as a hearing safe silencer for semi-automatic supersonic rifles.

What numbers do you have for this? Where are you getting your data?

Ranb

 

[MasterSergeantA]

Silencers (or suppressors for the semantically constrained) do two things: (1) they reduce the muzzle blast of the round and, (2) they can reduce the speed of the round to subsonic levels, thereby eliminating the 'crack' that is normally heard as it passes the target. If the muzzle blast is reduced, the silencer might easily make the rifle "hearing safe" for the shooter. So far as the downrange effect of the supersonic bullet? I don't care if the target goes deaf, since I am trying to kill him anyway.

If the muzzle blast is sufficiently reduced, not only is it hearing safe, but it will probably help obscure the location of the shooter sufficiently to offer a measure of protection from counter-sniper fire.

But that is just my opinion based on a bit more than 42 years carrying a rifle in defense of my country. I could easily be mistaken.

 

[Zak Smith]

Silencers (or suppressors for the semantically constrained) do two things: (1) they reduce the muzzle blast of the round and, (2) they can reduce the speed of the round to subsonic levels, thereby eliminating the 'crack' that is normally heard as it passes the target.

re: #2, they "can" (or in combination with aggressive barrel porting), but the vast, vast majority of modern suppressors do not affect velocity a noticeable amount.

 

[GoingQuiet]

Silencers (or suppressors for the semantically constrained) do two things: (1) they reduce the muzzle blast of the round and, (2) they can reduce the speed of the round to subsonic levels, thereby eliminating the 'crack' that is normally heard as it passes the target. If the muzzle blast is reduced, the silencer might easily make the rifle "hearing safe" for the shooter. So far as the downrange effect of the supersonic bullet? I don't care if the target goes deaf, since I am trying to kill him anyway.

If the muzzle blast is sufficiently reduced, not only is it hearing safe, but it will probably help obscure the location of the shooter sufficiently to offer a measure of protection from counter-sniper fire.

But that is just my opinion based on a bit more than 42 years carrying a rifle in defense of my country. I could easily be mistaken.

I have done testing with a chronograph and found no evidence supporting that a can will reduce the velocity of a projectile.

 

[Ranb]

Unless a bullet is punching through mesh or wipes, the velocity stays the same or goes up a tiny bit due to suppressor boost.

If the silencer is integral to a ported barrel, then velocity drops as gas is ported into the back of the can.

Ranb

 

[MasterSergeantA]

Ranb,

Thanks for the correction. I did mean to include that the silencer slows the bullet when it is of the integral variety on the ported barrel. My first can was the old Sionics type and I keep forgetting there are other designs.

 

[USAMP1980]

I have a SAS Ti Arbiter can in .308/7.62 . I use SAS flash suppressors on all my uppers. I use the same can for anything .308 or smaller. I find it much more cost effective. I used in on 5.56 and it worked fine. The subs were quiet. I often use it on 6.5 Grendel supersonics.

 

[hso]

A suppressor reduces the sound pressure level (noise) by a specific amount (around 30 dB). A given round from a given weapon will produce a specific SPL (typically 150-170 dB). Subtracting the suppressor numbers from the weapon/round numbers gives you the remaining noise exposure you are subjected to. If the numbers are in the hazardous range (one time exposure to 140 dB or cumulative lower exposures) you will be exposed to excessive noise and at risk of injury if you are not wearing hearing protection. If the numbers are below the hazardous range, you don't have the same risk. If you are not shooting subsonic ammunition from a suppressed weapon I would recommend always using hearing protection since we rarely just shoot a single round at the range.

 

[mtrmn]

I just (finally) got my YHM Ti 7.62 Phantom. It is NOT hearing safe TO THE SHOOTER on a 308 or 5.56 underneath my shooting shed or any "close" area. (Sounds like unplugging an air hose in my automotive shop.)

Out in an open field with nothing close by to reflect the sound it is borderline safe/unsafe TO THE SHOOTER.

TO AN OBSERVER 10 yards away in either case it sounds like a normal HV 22LR being shot, and I would consider it hearing safe.

It SEEMS to be a bit quieter on the 556 than the 308, even though it is a 308 suppressor.
All shooting has been done with full power ammo. I HAVE NOT tried any subsonic ammo yet. I need time to load some up once I settle on a recipe.
So far I absolutely would NOT buy a dedicated 556 suppressor if I had any idea I might want to use it on another caliber at any time in the future. So to answer the OP question I recommend a .30 suppressor on a 556 hands down. And the titanium version is definitely worth the extra money in weight savings. QD is nice too.

 

[RhinoDefense]

What numbers do you have for this? Where are you getting your data?

Hearing safe for impulse noise according to OSHA is 140dB.

A supersonic bullet will have noise in excess of this no matter if it's suppressed or unsuppressed. A suppressor will only control the noise of the gunshot, but it is impossible to control the noise of a bullet in flight, be it supersonic or subsonic. Supersonic bullets in flight still have a noise level in excess of 140dB. A subsonic bullet will not break the sound barrier and will have a mild report, but the bullet in flight is still creating noise. Rhino Defense (my company) has done research for the DoD on suppressors and this was a result. If a bullet in flight remains supersonic, it will not register less than 140dB. A subsonic bullet will.

The suppressor industry measures the SPL of the gunshot, not the bullet in flight. Measure the bullet in flight and you'll have a more complete picture of the noise generated by shooting a bullet.

 

[Strykervet]

Well, I'll be starting the paperwork for the SDN6 here real soon. I'll let you know how it works in four months with four different calibres, 5.56, 6.5G, 7.62x51, and .300BLK.

I ordered the stainless blackout barrel from Satern already, 16" with carbine gas, heavy profile from the chamber to the gas port, then .750" after that, all of it heavily double wide fluted to get the weight down to about 1.1lbs. I'll build it on a Noveske receiver set and FF the barrel using a rifle length (or longer, I think they make a longer one now) M5 FF rail system. I use those on a couple of other rifles and love 'em with the rail covers and bipod.

Since AAC sent me the wrong mount for my Grendel, they told me to just keep it, and they sent me the right one. But it turns out the threading is 5/8-24 --just right for the .300BLK! I had planned on ordering one, but couldn't afford all of them at once and didn't need it yet anyway. But now I have it, so I'm good to go.

I can't wait to get this barrel and the SDN6 together. AAC states that this combo is quieter than the MP5SD with subsonic ammo. Wow. They state a 39dB reduction with this suppressor and that round, so that is a main reason I chose them. That I can use the suppressor on other rounds is great too.

Still, after we get the MKIII from S&H (who I can say for SURE make a VERY silent .22 pistol) for my wife, plan on ordering it Christmas, I still may get the M42000 for 5.56 or 6.8. Just because I plan on getting other rifles that could use this suppressor, like the FN2000, my wife likes the feel of that one, then I won't be using one on several.

After that, it is on to .338Lapua and suppressing that baby, probably a screw on just for it, and semi or bolt action integral .44mag. These are all things I wanted for a while but couldn't really indulge until the law changed. Interestingly, I haven't been all that interested in suppressing the pistols. I'd like to get one for 10mm because that one is my range baby, but it isn't on top of the list.

 

[Mike1234567]

Strykervet...

Congrats!! Please do post a "report".