.30 Carbine Blackhawk light primer strikes

[GarrettJ]

I bought a used Blackhawk in .30 Carbine a few months ago. Having fun working up loads for it. Overall, it's a nice, accurate revolver. It seems to reach out and hit my steel targets at farther distances than most of my other revolvers.

The issue I've had is that it seems to produce a high number of light primer strikes. The last time I had it out I had 6 failures in 60 rounds. 10% is a pretty high failure rate. Primers are all seated using an RCBS hand tool, which is how I seat primers for my other cartridges, which don't exhibit this issue. I'm confident I did not have any high primers.

I thought maybe it had a short firing pin. But comparing that one to my other Blackhawks shows firing pin protrusion, while on the lower end, is still in there with the rest of the revolvers.

Measured FP protrusion at the breechface runs from .038" to .045". And while the .30 is the shortest, I also have a .357 with a pin that protrudes .038", and has no issues.

The only difference I can see is that I've been loading with CCI small rifle primers, where the others have been loaded with small pistol primers. I've used both standard and magnum primers, depending on which powder I'm using.

So next thing to try is to load the .30 Carbine using pistol primers and see if the issue persists. The cartridge has the same pressure rating as some of the magnum revolver cartridges, so I'm not overly concerned there. I'll just have to back off and work up loads again.

But I've used small rifle primers in several "pistol" cartridges in the past. The only issues I've ever had there were with some striker-fired pistols or tuned S&W revolvers not having enough power to set off the harder primers. And I would be surprised if the typical Blackhawk would not be able to reliably ignite rifle primers, even the magnum rifle primers. So what else should I be looking for?

I bought the gun used, but it does not appear to have had springs swapped out or any other work done that might have decreased hammer force. Anything else I should be looking for?

 

[GarrettJ]

One other thought I'd had was that maybe I had short brass, or long chambers. But I've pulled down the rounds with failed primers, reprimed and reloaded them and they fired fine the next time around. So I don't think it's a brass or chamber length issue either.

 

[Texas10mm]

I wonder if the previous owner changed the springs?

 

[Jimfern]

I bought a used 41 mag new model blackhawk a few years ago that was made in 1973. It had light primer strikes all the time. I called Ruger and they told me it was the ammo. I tried different ammo then bought the spring kit below. 24lb spring fixed my problem.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/3415363678?pid=363678

 

[GooseGestapo]

Check the head space of the reloaded ammo.
Trimming the cases to minimum, and full length sizing can cause the cases to sink too deep in the cylinders causing light strikes.

Load the cylinders, check clearance between case head face and frame with a feeler gauge.

The New Model BlackHawks have enough clearance such that they allow .32-20 cases sized in a .30Carbine die to be used.

 

[.38 Special]

Several decades ago I handled and shot one. The owner told me he had a bunch of factory .30 Carbine for sale because his gun wouldn't light off the rifle primers. He used Federal pistol primers in his handloads and had no further troubles.

I do not know if that is the typical situation for those guns, but it is one additional data point, anyway. Luck!

 

[GarrettJ]

So here’s an interesting one. I had pulled down the six rounds that didn’t fire from last time I was out. I gently pressed the primers out of the cases using a depriming die. I then seated them in some sized .38 Special cases. I used these cases, as my .357 Blackhawk has essentially the same firing pin protrusion as the .30 Carbine.

I loaded the six in the .357 and started shooting. 5 of the 6 primers fired on the first strike, and the sixth fired the second time around.

I had attempted to fire each of them twice when they were loaded in the .30 brass.

Here is what they looked like after I punched them out of the .30 Carb and before attempting to fire them in the .38 brass.

 

[edwardware]

I loaded the six in the .357 and started shooting. 5 of the 6 primers fired on the first strike,

Restriking isn't a fair test.

I suspect that the rifle primers are a bit tougher; I know for certain that the firing pin energy in a rifle is far higher. You might also consider an extra-power hammer spring and a C&S or HiPower extended Firing Pin.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Again, check and see how far the cases drop into the cylinders.

The .30Carbine is a different “critter” than the .38/.357 BlackHawk.

The .30carbine headspaces on the case neck. Secondarily on the case taper. If the cases are crimped too much but not enough to buckle the case, they can seat too deeply, prevented the firing pin from adequately striking the primers.

Most data calls for using small rifle primers in the .30Carbine due to “rifle” pressures and likelyhood that ammo might be used in a rifle.
I use small primers in my .327Federal also, because of small pistol primers possibly extruding into the firing pin hole or piercing.
I got a super deal on my .30Carbine BH because wrong front sight was installed by Ruger. I had to file off .325” to get it to zero because it has a front sight for a 5.5” .44Spl. It shoots FAR,FAR better than I was lead to believe it would from magazine articles, and LGS legends and myths.

You did state you are using reloads. Does it give light hits with factory ammo?

 

[Gordon]

Check the head space of the reloaded ammo.
Trimming the cases to minimum, and full length sizing can cause the cases to sink too deep in the cylinders causing light strikesYou mean to tell me you can resize 32-20 cases into a .30 Carbine rimmed case ? Praise the L-rd if that one is true ? Is there any catch ?

Load the cylinders, check clearance between case head face and frame with a feeler gauge.

The New Model BlackHawks have enough clearance such that they allow .32-20 cases sized in a .30Carbine die to be used.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Yes, indeed!
Why?
I don’t know, but several posters on Ruger Owners forum and castboolits.com have reported it.
It’s only the New Models. Older models have deeper cylinders and less cylinder to frame clearance.

.32-20 fits in mine. .11” clearance is loaded .30Carbine. Clearance with ancient UMC .32-20 case was 0.0015”

 

[jski]

I’ve been reloading for my .30 Carbine Blackhawk for quite a few years. I’ve used Winchester and CCI small pistol magnum primers + H110 with 115 gr Linotype bullets from Montana Bullet Works and Starline brass. This particular recipe has been 100% reliable for me with both my Blackhawk and my Universal Carbine and my M1 Carbine.

BTW, the .30 Carbine Blackhawk is one of my very favorite handguns at the range. And with the cylinder as sturdy as a tank, I feel safe to experiment.

 

[jski]

Look into:
Paco’s Long Range Load For the .30 Carbine Blackhawk

 

[GarrettJ]

Check the head space of the reloaded ammo.
Trimming the cases to minimum, and full length sizing can cause the cases to sink too deep in the cylinders causing light strikes.

Load the cylinders, check clearance between case head face and frame with a feeler gauge.

The New Model BlackHawks have enough clearance such that they allow .32-20 cases sized in a .30Carbine die to be used.

I must have an early transitional New Model. According to Ruger's website, 1973 was the last production year for the OM .30 Carbine, with serial numbers for that year beginning with s/n 50-22983. It does not state what the last s/n in the series was. Ruger's page for the New Model .30 Carbine starts in 1974 with s/n 51-02629.

My revolver is a New Model, but with s/n 51-023XX, about 300 before the first listed New Model. Of course, Ruger's website is known not to be 100% accurate, and is useful as a guideline only.

That's the long-winded way to say my revolver, while being a New Model, has the recessed chambers common to the Old Model cylinders. That preculdes the use of .32-20 brass in my revolver. With the gun empty, I can fit a .011" feeler gauge between the cylinder and the breechface. I took the six cartridges that had failed to fire, had pressed out the primers, inserted new primers, and reloaded them. With those cartridges loaded, I can fit a .008" feeler through the gap.

And while the cases are at the minimum "trim-to" length, so are the others that all fired.

Restriking isn't a fair test.

I don't know about "fair" or "unfair". I understand that I'm comparing a cartridge that headspaces on the rim vs. one that headspaces on the mouth. I could have tried doing the same with another rimless cartridge. I have a Blackhawk with a .40 S&W cylinder that might have been a better comparison. But that one has a longer firing pin protrusion.

What I do know is that it gave me another piece of data. All of the primers were re-struck in the .30C, just after the first attempt. None fired. When loaded in a different case/gun, they all fired. I don't have a good way to measure hammer force or spring tension, so I thought this might be the next best thing.

By the way, I just checked and with those same .38 Spl. cases I used to restrike the primers inserted in the chamber, I can get a .010" feeler gauge through the gap. So where that gun has the closest length firing pin to the .30C, and a gap within .002", it may be at least a somewhat okay comparison. With the gaps and firing pins being nearly identical, I think that helps to rule out a brass depth issue. So you're probably correct that it is a spring issue.

I can't tell any difference in spring tension just by feel though. Not that necessarily a very good indicator.

Also, I haven't tried any factory ammo yet. I haven't been to a gun shop since the recent silliness had just started, and most ammo had already been cleaned off the shelves. I was going to order some .30 Carbine ammo at some point to try out. I just hadn't yet.

I have some other stuff loaded up using CCI SP primers to try out. Just waiting for an opportunity to get out and shoot them.

Thanks to all for the suggestions so far.

 

[GarrettJ]

So today I went out and shot some more ammo through this gun. This time I had loaded using CCI 500 SP primers, along with some 90 gr. XTP over a charge of Viht N110. They all went bang and I had no flattening or other high-pressure signs. Actually, the empties just fell out of the chambers, so no issues there.

I also had around 40 cases stil primed with CCI 450 SR-M primers. So I had loaded them up with an otherwise identical load. Just to add to the confusion, all of these fired as well.

Included in the ammo fired were rounds made from the six cartridges that had failed to fire last time. I loaded half with SP primers and the other half with SR-M primers. Again, all fired. If it was just short cases, at least some of these should have failed again. None did.

So I'm back to thinking it's the springs.

I'm still debating if I want to keep this gun. It's the only .30 caliber revolver I own, but I have a couple other guns in .32 caliber. For simplicty's sake, I could sell this off and get something in .327 Fed. I then wouldn't have to stock both .30 and .32 bullets. I saw a one of those 8-shot .327 Blackhawks sell on Gunbroker the other day. But then, it went for more than double what I paid for the .30 Carbine. So maybe not.

I still like how this thing shoots. I was smacking an 8"x10" plate at 100 yards pretty regularly today. Both from a rest and unsupported. I was pretty happy with that.

 

[243winxb]

I don't see the trim length of the OPs 30 carbine brass? 1.290" - .010" is SAAMI.

Measure all chambers in the cylinder. One may be longer then others. Excessive Head Space.

I see the CCI 400 is listed at Hodgdon & Alliant. This primer is softer than others. The 30 carbine runs at 40,000 PSI. This is maximum pressure for the CCI 400 primer.

My spring test.

A test for a Smith and Wesson revolver, model 28, 357mag., may work on other guns also<> Gun empty.
Dryfire gun and hold trigger fully to rear.
Cock hammer with thumb.
Hook a weight around the hammer (for example 3 1/2 LB minimum weight for 357).
The hammer must not move rearward when the gun is lifted.
The hammer should lift 3 1/2 lbs without going into the cocked position.