.30 Super or .30 Luger? *read first post*

[TTv2]

I enjoyed the 9x18 vs .45 GAP topic so much I decided to do another one like it. My interest is to see what others think between two unpopular calibers if they had to choose between them. This isn't focused so much on any specific guns, the last two topics were kind of specific because there's really only one or two guns known for 9x18 and .45 GAP and .455 Webley.

For the purposes of this topic let's say that the .30 Super Carry and .30 Luger pistols are exactly the same, the only difference being the chambering.

So, here's the jist: you are looking for a pistol that has lower recoil than 9mm, but decent power. The options available for you to buy are a .30 Super and a .30 Luger/7.65x21 Parabellum. Which do you choose?

 

[Mark_Mark]

I enjoyed the 9x18 vs .45 GAP topic so much I decided to do another one like it. My interest is to see what others think between two unpopular calibers if they had to choose between them. This isn't focused so much on any specific guns, the last two topics were kind of specific because there's really only one or two guns known for 9x18 and .45 GAP and .455 Webley.

For the purposes of this topic let's say that the .30 Super Carry and .30 Luger pistols are exactly the same, the only difference being the chambering.

So, here's the jist: you are looking for a pistol that has lower recoil than 9mm, but decent power. The options available for you to buy are a .30 Super and a .30 Luger/7.65x21 Parabellum. Which do you choose?

wish they made a Luger in 30 Super Carry!

 

[TTv2]

wish they made a Luger in 30 Super Carry!

I'll take that as a vote for .30 Super then. Thanks for playing.

 

[cfullgraf]

I wish someone would make a 30 Super Carry gun scaled down for the cartridge, not just put a 30 SC barrel in a 9mm gun. Not necessarily a micro gun like the various 380 ACP's on the market, but one that is slimmer and trimmer than a 9mm.

That is the main reason I have not invested in a 30 SC gun yet. I think the cartridge has potential.

Otherwise, I'd prefer the 30 SC as it could fit an extra round or two in the gun versus 30 Luger.

But, a 30 SC Luger would be sweet. But alas, it will never happen.

 

[tmd16556]

30 sc mostly because both will be hard to find, but a straight wall cartridge is easier to reload than a bottleneck.

 

[jdh]

30 Mauser/Tok

 

[JohnKSa]

Slightly better ballistics, a round or two higher capacity in the same sized gun. Hard not to take the .30SC.

30 Mauser/Tok

Fun round. It would be a lot more popular if it were short enough fit into .45ACP/10mm sized magazines.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

30 Luger classic, elegant, not new age turd. lol

 

[herrwalther]

Does anyone have a ballistic test where someone tests 30 Carbine out of a 4-6" barrel? The most common firearm to use 30 Carbine was the M1 Carbine. Someone could have done the unthinkable and cut one down to do a ballistics test with a handgun length barrel. Or one of the small smattering handguns in 30 Carbine out there. My Google-Fu is failing as all I can find is 30 Carbine tests out of an 18"/M1 Carbine barrel. That would put this comparison in a more fair light.

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

Look up AMT auto mag velocities then take away about 75 fps per inch of barrel to get your 4 inch theoretical values I'd be pretty close. Anyway you look at it. a 30 Carbine 4 inch revolver or pistol would smoke the 30 Super stupid.

 

[chicharrones]

Does anyone have a ballistic test where someone tests 30 Carbine out of a 4-6" barrel? The most common firearm to use 30 Carbine was the M1 Carbine. Someone could have done the unthinkable and cut one down to do a ballistics test with a handgun length barrel. Or one of the small smattering handguns in 30 Carbine out there. My Google-Fu is failing as all I can find is 30 Carbine tests out of an 18"/M1 Carbine barrel. That would put this comparison in a more fair light.

I only know of the Ruger Blackhawk, but the barrel is longer than 6”.

A Primer On the Ruger Blackhawk In .30 Carbine

In my opinion the .30 Carbine round makes a better handgun cartridge than a rifle round. My .30 carbine Ruger is more accurate than my WW2 Inland DCM carbine. Two-inch 50 yard groups, fired from sandbags with iron sights firing hand loads are easy, as are 4-5 inch groups off sandbags at 100...

pistol-forum.com

357 Magnum vs 30 Carbine: Which is Better in a Handgun?

Paul tests 357 magnum against 30 carbine out of a couple revolvers.Shirts and patches from Tristar Trading Co: https://alnk.to/6bSTELxOther platforms:Rumble:...

youtu.be

 

[Ascot500]

I only know of the Ruger Blackhawk, but the barrel is longer than 6”.

A Primer On the Ruger Blackhawk In .30 Carbine

In my opinion the .30 Carbine round makes a better handgun cartridge than a rifle round. My .30 carbine Ruger is more accurate than my WW2 Inland DCM carbine. Two-inch 50 yard groups, fired from sandbags with iron sights firing hand loads are easy, as are 4-5 inch groups off sandbags at 100...

pistol-forum.com

357 Magnum vs 30 Carbine: Which is Better in a Handgun?

Paul tests 357 magnum against 30 carbine out of a couple revolvers.Shirts and patches from Tristar Trading Co: https://alnk.to/6bSTELxOther platforms:Rumble:...

youtu.be

The Blackhawk has a long barrel but also has that cylinder gap.
I found this info at the Ruger forum: "My favorite 30 Carb load is 14gr of W-296 with a Speer 110gr jacketed round nose bullet. Chamber pressure is a modest 28.5k psi at about 1250 fps."
Hope this helps.

 

[Gork10]

30 Luger all the way. None of the pistols chambers for 30 super do anything for me. Although I do find the idea of a 30 super in a p-08 intriguing. A super luger.

 

[JohnMc]

.30 Super Carry for the poll, more rounds per grip size, slightly less punch.
If 7.62 Tokarev was in the mix, probably that.

Edit: .30 Luger loaded to "modern pressure", how about that?

 

[TTv2]

.30 Super Carry for the poll, more rounds per grip size, slightly less punch.
If 7.62 Tokarev was in the mix, probably that.

I thought about doing 7.62 Tok, but that doesn't fit in 9mm sized frames, so I went with .30 Luger as that does.

Then I thought 7.62 Tok was more powerful than .30 Super, but with a 100gr or 115gr think they'd be pretty equal.

 

[Hartkopf]

I haven’t done a thorough investigation but a quick look at Midway shows 30SC fmj to be almost half the price of 30 Luger.

 

[JohnMc]

I thought about doing 7.62 Tok, but that doesn't fit in 9mm sized frames, so I went with .30 Luger as that does.

Then I thought 7.62 Tok was more powerful than .30 Super, but with a 100gr or 115gr think they'd be pretty equal.

I missed your reply before adding an edit.
I thought what about doing to 7.65 Parabellum what the Russians did to .30 Mauser; jack up the pressure and thus the power.
Without knowing it, that's what S&W did to 7.65 French Long to get .30 Super.

 

[Bazoo]

30 Luger here. History alone would make it preferenced.

 

[cfullgraf]

30 sc mostly because both will be hard to find, but a straight wall cartridge is easier to reload than a bottleneck.

Maybe, maybe not.

I load 38/45 Clerke, form cases as well, and load 357 SIG. IT takes an extra step or so in the reloading process but not any more dificult to load than a straight walled case.

 

[TTv2]

I missed your reply before adding an edit.
I thought what about doing to 7.65 Parabellum what the Russians did to .30 Mauser; jack up the pressure and thus the power.
Without knowing it, that's what S&W did to 7.65 French Long to get .30 Super.

They'd have to make it slightly different for safety reasons so a modern magnum type .30 Luger wouldn't be able to go into a .30 Luger pistol like an old Luger. How about something like a necked down 9x18 Makarov case to .32? Would hold more powder than the .32 NAA, which is a .380 necked to .32 and be able to fit into .380 sized pistols like the Beretta 84 or LCP.

 

[cfullgraf]

I haven’t done a thorough investigation but a quick look at Midway shows 30SC fmj to be almost half the price of 30 Luger.

30 Luger is almost an obsolete cartridge these days so the manufacturers will jack up the prices to justify making the rounds.

30 SC is current and Federal would like it to succeed so thy are probably giving it an attractive price.

 

[TTv2]

I would go with .30 Super because if we're talking about the same gun, let's say a Glock, I'd rather have the Super than the Luger because it's currently available and a hobby horse Federal is pushing and probably will for a while. In fact, I think we're going to get a .30 Super pistol at SHOT this month that gets attention and companies that can say they make a pistol that holds 20 rds with a flush mag, 24 with an extended mag, and in a caliber people can actually afford compared to 5.7x28 will turn heads.

Back to why I choose it over .30 Luger is it's easier to reload, it's going to be more supported by the industry going forward, there's bound to be more PCC's than just the Hi Point, there will be more pistols made for it. The .30 Luger does have advantages, its bottleneck design makes it more reliable and currently it is available in more pistols than the .30 Super is, but if you offered me a Beretta 92 or a Browning Hi Power in Super or Luger, I'm taking Super.

 

[Gordon]

I love the .30 Luger because it is so much fun ! It rarely jams, like hardly ever, because of the bottle necked case. I operates a little lower pressure than the 9x19 as that cartridge was a later development and jacked things up a bit. In a Ruger Model 89 or a Browning Hi Power , Sig 210 or other modern locked breech formats the 7.65 can surely run 9x19 pressures which are over any loading manuals out of defference to the Older Lugers ECT. I had distant relatives (the Lambs. A young Husband and wife ) that sea Kayaked down from California to Panama along the coast in the 1930 s who took a stocked .30 Luger with a 6" barrel and a few magazines and shot game and held off different pirate groups along their year long adventure. My 93 grain load does 1200 fps out of my 4" Luger and about 1250 fps in the Browning Hi Power and Ruger 89 I have in 7.65. mm . It is a very mellow, somewhat quiet load and in the Ruger and Browning I have experimented with 105 grain hollow points at 1300 fps that were louder but exhibited no pressure signs in those pistols. All around tho I think the Tok 7.62 would be my favorite in a proper sized pistol.My T33 is an amazing svelte , reliable and loud gun .I have shot SMG 1500 fps ammo out of it with zero problems and same with the CZ 52 I had.

 

[herrwalther]

I only know of the Ruger Blackhawk, but the barrel is longer than 6”.

7.5" example is a heck of a lot closer than comparing an M1 Carbine to a 30 Super Carry pocket gun. Thanks for the article. I think 30 Carbine is a woefully under utilized round and deserves a comeback.

 

[JohnMc]

They'd have to make it slightly different for safety reasons so a modern magnum type .30 Luger wouldn't be able to go into a .30 Luger pistol like an old Luger. How about something like a necked down 9x18 Makarov case to .32? Would hold more powder than the .32 NAA, which is a .380 necked to .32 and be able to fit into .380 sized pistols like the Beretta 84 or LCP.

The Russians didn't care; the Germans used 7.65 Mauser in captured Russian guns (safe), while the Red Army didn't need to worry about the reverse AFAIK. Modern .30-06 will wreck a Garand, current European loads of 6.5x55 Swede can damage Swedish Mausers, etc.
But in our litigious society, well, yes, it's probably worth worrying about.