.32-20 or .38 S&W? *.38 S&W, not .38 Special*

[TTv2]

Firstly, the .38 S&W cartridge, NOT a .38 Special that is a S&W.

I'm enjoying the opinions of others on these unpopular caliber topics, I never would have thought the .45 GAP would get almost 40% in a poll. Revolvers are a bit tough because it's not easy to compare two that are similar in power and ammo price/availability.

The theoretical situation here is you just turned 21 and you want to get your first revolver and you want to leave the store with it that day. The only available revolvers at the store are a .32-20 and a .38 S&W. They have Colt's and Smith's in both, the .38 Webley, H&R and Iver Johnson's, heck, they even have a Ruger Security Six in .38 S&W.

For this question the gun isn't really important, so what caliber you choosing and why?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Are we theorizing a hypothetical world where both cartridges are actually available and affordable, or the real-world ammo situation as it stands today?

I believe Ruger did actually make some Six-Series revolvers in .38S&W for the Indian police market, BTW.

 

[Miami_JBT]

I have a pile of guns in .38 S&W and have a soft spot for the cartridge.

 

[TTv2]

Are we theorizing a hypothetical world where both cartridges are actually available and affordable, or the real-world ammo situation as it stands today?

Ammo availability and cost adds to the discussion. I'm not going to work in a hypothetical on ammo, that's a factor others have to consider on their own.

I know that both are very tough to get now. I do reload, I don't have any dies or brass for either caliber, but I do have bullets that would work in .32-20, but that can be more of a challenge to load than .38, so those are all factors I have to consider personally.

Then maybe there is someone who likes .38, but has a source for .32-20 ammo, so they would likely choose .32-20 solely for that reason. I think that ended up being a factor in the Mak vs GAP topic, people probably like the .45 more, but the 9x18 is easier for them to get, which is why the 9x18 won.

 

[TarDevil]

Buffalo Bore sells a. 38 SW 125 gr hard cast at 1000 FPS.

That's my choice.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Well, .32-20 is the clear winner ballistically, but is pretty much unobtainium these days, so I would have to vote .38 Short and Weak, lol.

 

[silicosys4]

Hard to say which one is more interesting. They both have a lot of heritage. The current ammo and components shortage is a temporary thing that I don't hold against the .32-20. There was plenty of brass available for reloading before, I'm sure there will be again.

Overall I just like the .32-20 better for its versatility and the variety of firearms chambered in it, both rifles and pistols, lever actions, pump actions, etc... I personally have three.

The only guns I own in .38 S&W.

 

[TTv2]

I choosed .38 for a few reasons. Either caliber means I need to buy dies and brass, but as stated before I think .38 is easier to work with. The other reason is I don't have, nor have any interest in a .32-20 rifle and that seems to be a major draw to the cartridge where the .38 there are no rifles for it and even if there were, I still wouldn't care.

For strictly handguns, I still see the .32 as ballistically superior to .38, but not at the cost of size as most .32-20 revolvers I see are large, while with .38 S&W I can get one in a cheap top break or small frame snub or a full size, even a derringer. The .32-20 is too limited in what handguns I could get for it.

Ammo is another factor, even tho I would reload, if I wanted factory ammo, IDK how available .32-20 is or has been in the recent past, but .38 I have seen and with how many .38 S&W chambered revolvers there are out there, I figure it will always been readily available online.

 

[jar]

I have quite a few 38S&W revolvers so that was what I did choose.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Hard to say which one is more interesting. They both have a lot of heritage. The current ammo and components shortage is a temporary thing that I don't hold against the .32-20. There was plenty of brass available for reloading before, I'm sure there will be again.

Overall I just like the .32-20 better for its versatility and the variety of firearms chambered in it, both rifles and pistols, lever actions, pump actions, etc... I personally have three.

View attachment 1188227

View attachment 1188230

The only guns I own in .38 S&W.

View attachment 1188235

View attachment 1188236

Love the M&H!

 

[WestKentucky]

This scenario would haunt me. I love 38sw almost as much as I love the entire 32 pistol caliber collection. I haven’t ever had a 32-20 though and it’s on my REALLY short list.

For gits and shiggles in this one I’m just gonna say that a Colt official police would be hard to put down in favor of a M&P hand ejector, but I think it would happen, but that decision is easy in comparison to the caliber. 32-20 is pretty awesome for small game and it’s plenty adequate for self defense. 38sw is more potent for self defense purposes but would be less preferable for small game. 38sw would have a slight marginal advantage on medium game but the 32-20 would have better ballistics and would be easier to get hits at range.

I think that I would land on 32-20 in a k frame M&P revolver. There are some really interesting oddball guns out there that could easily tempt me away, like a stock/holstered 38-200 but there are also some 32-20 SAA guns and lever carbines that would absolutely seal the deal. Also guns like M&H or Webley (Fosberry?) could be just incredible enough to pull a man over the edge and get something off the wall.

It’s just too hard to say, but these days a nice 32-20 isn’t plentiful but a nice 38sw can be bought on a tight budget. The last few I have bought were well under $100. The 32-20s seem to regularly have ringed barrels and are otherwise in rough shape which is part of what drives the price of a nice one up.

I’m not voting. Too hard to decide.

 

[Walkalong]

Have both, like both, hard choice........so the only rational solution is both.

 

[Rodfac]

Well I voted for the .32-20 for its versatility and the fact that I've got a pair of them: Winchester Model 92 and a very pretty Smith Hand Ejector, 4th model in almost new condition. Loading for them is a trial on occasion due to the thin case neck on older brass, but Starline has seen fit to correct that complaint. Loads are more difficult to tune, I find, say versus a .38 Special or the .38 S&W, for reasons I've never fathomed. Ken Water justly famous tome on reloading, "Pet Loads" discusses his work with a Smith duplicate of my revolver and offers some suggestions to those similarly frustrated.

All that said, an old .38 S&W can still perk if time is spent and lead alloy bullets are sized appropriately for cylinder chambers and bore size. BTW, Starline has .38 S&W brass for sale and available as of ten minutes ago...

The one below, a Colt Police Positive from the '30s I believe, still perks even with 100 yr old ammunition. The gun was my uncle's pre-war Colt which he carried as a security gate guard for Bethleham Steel in Lackawana, NY. It came to me after his death 25 yrs ago and I've enjoyed toting it while walking my pointer through our spring and fall meadows. I treasure that old gun for the memories it drums up of an old man, who taught a young sprout how to cast a Phleuger bait casting reel without bird-nesting it. Thanks Uncle Bill...see you in awhile. Rod

Police Positive in .38 S&W with tgt shot at 7 yds, offhand. Five shots not six as noted on target.
S&W hand ejector, 4th variation, .32-20.





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[Driftwood Johnson]

silicosys4: technically speaking, the Merwin Hulbert you pictured is chambered for 38MH, not 38S&W.

It looks like I have the same revolver.

The 38CAL marking refers to the 38M&H cartridge. Very similar dimensionally, and 38S&W rounds will chamber in mine, but they are not quite the same round.

I have lots of 38S&W revolvers, these Perfecteds are my favorites.

But I gotta tell you, I have a real sweet spot for 32-20. At the top of this photo a Winchester Model 1892 that shipped in 1911. Notice the octagonal barrel. At bottom left, a Smith & Wesson 32-20 Hand Ejector that shipped in 1916. Lower right is a 32-20 Colt Police Positive Special that shipped in 1926. Before the Pandemic it was not all that hard to find factory 32-20 ammo, I still have a few boxes. But I also have dies, brass, and bullets for 32-20. Just a little bit fussy to load because of the slight bottleneck. There are no carbide dies for 32-20, so the brass has to be lubed before sizing/decap.

 

[Bazoo]

I'd probably take the 38 S&W. It'd be a joy to reload for and shoot. I hear tell the 32-20 can be tricky to reload.

 

[cfullgraf]

I have revolvers chambered in 32 S&W, 32 S&WL, 32 H&R Mag, 327 Fed Mag, and 32-20 Win. I also have rifles chambered in 32-20 Win and 327 Fed Mag.

My 32 S&W revolver is a 1930 vintage lemon squeezer break top. It shoots but the ammunition is anemic. I can load for it but I'd just as soon leave it as a safe queen. It belonged to my wife's uncle before he passed away.

I recently acquired a Manurhin MR32 revolver chambered in 32 S&WL. It is a K-frame sized revolver and it is a dream to shoot at targets. I would not plan on it being a defensive firearm. It has a number of target shooting accoutrements built on it.

I kind of feel the same way about the 38 S&W cartridge. I'd rather stick with 38 Special or 357 Magnum. I do not really have a desire to obtain a vintage revolver chambered in 38 S&W.

The 32-20 Win is pretty zippy cartridge. Maybe not as hot as the 327 Fed Mag but fairly hot just the same. My 32-20 S&W hand ejector is a good compliment to my vintage Winchester 1873.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Only caveat with the 32-30, do NOT fire "rifle only" ammunition in a handgun.
Instead of "unpopular" I would say out of fashion.
32-20, you can have a rifle/handgun combo. 38 S&W, you imagine yourself back in 1900. Or a para or Commando out to liberate Europe.

 

[cfullgraf]

Only caveat with the 32-30, do NOT fire "rifle only" ammunition in a handgun.
Instead of "unpopular" I would say out of fashion.
32-20, you can have a rifle/handgun combo. 38 S&W, you imagine yourself back in 1900. Or a para or Commando out to liberate Europe.

Agreed, but 32-20 has another problem as it was developed in the days of black powder and made the transition to smokless.

It definitely is not a good idea to shoot smokeless powder loads in a black powder rifle unless the load is appropriately adjusted.

But, as the cartridge continued into the 20th century, the guns were improved to handle smokeless powder loads.

Do your homework on what your gun can handle. Definitely get into reloading if you are not already there.

I load light loads for my 1890's vintage Winchester 1873 that I also shoot in my 1920's vintage S&W Hand ejector. I get to enjoy the fun of shooting these fine old firearms taking out soda cans and blocks of wood.

If I want some better hunting guns in the 32 caliber range, a modern 327 Fed Mag fills the bill nicely.

 

[TTv2]

Only caveat with the 32-30, do NOT fire "rifle only" ammunition in a handgun.
Instead of "unpopular" I would say out of fashion.
32-20, you can have a rifle/handgun combo. 38 S&W, you imagine yourself back in 1900. Or a para or Commando out to liberate Europe.

Unpopular in today's terms, but you're right, in their day they were popular and they have fallen out of favor due to modern alternatives. I saw recently something I did not know and it was that S&W made I frames for the .38 S&W, thus my thinking is if people want a smaller than a J frame revolver that's in a .38, the .38 S&W would be the solution.

Not many asking for that tho.

 

[Miami_JBT]

My issue with .32-20 is that you have rifle loads and handgun loads and old ammo can be mislabeled and blow up a handgun. .38 S&W doesn't have that issue.

 

[Miami_JBT]

Unpopular in today's terms, but you're right, in their day they were popular and they have fallen out of favor due to modern alternatives. I saw recently something I did not know and it was that S&W made I frames for the .38 S&W, thus my thinking is if people want a smaller than a J frame revolver that's in a .38, the .38 S&W would be the solution.

Not many asking for that tho.

I have an I-Frame in .38 S&W, it makes the J-Frame look large.

 

[silicosys4]

Agreed, but 32-20 has another problem as it was developed in the days of black powder and made the transition to smokless.

It definitely is not a good idea to shoot smokeless powder loads in a black powder rifle unless the load is appropriately adjusted.

But, as the cartridge continued into the 20th century, the guns were improved to handle smokeless powder loads.

This is true, I have to keep my handloads at a pretty low level as a rule, even though the .32-20 is capable of surprising power, 115gr at 2000fps from buffalo bore, and I've heard of people getting substantially more with strong, modern rifles.

32-20 WINCHESTER +P Hard Cast

32-20 WINCHESTER +P Hard Cast, Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower bullets. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.

www.buffalobore.com

My loads are 93gr. at 1200fps out of a rifle, so a mild load that is just a bit louder than a .22lr out of a rifle. If I had only newer guns with modern steels I'd have a few much spicier recipes.

My issue with .32-20 is that you have rifle loads and handgun loads and old ammo can be mislabeled and blow up a handgun. .38 S&W doesn't have that issue.

The .32-20 cartridge itself isn't any more inherently susceptible to blowing guns up than any other cartridge like the .45 colt that can be loaded to far exceed the strength of a great many antique guns that are chambered for it. .38 S&W can also have that issue. If you load in excess of the strength of an antique gun, you must keep those rounds away from antique guns. I don't know how many standard pressure smokeless powder .38 S&W loads my M&H would live through but I wouldn't bet more than 1.

The 32-20s seem to regularly have ringed barrels and are otherwise in rough shape which is part of what drives the price of a nice one up.

When I picked up the Army Special pictured above, it had a horribly chopped barrel that was so crudely done that I got curious as to why somebody would do such a thing, seemingly only out of necessity and certainly not for taste. I had it rebarreled and along the way I found the same information, that many .32-20 pistols are found with ringed barrels, and the explanation I found was related to the high velocity .32-20 ammunition introduced sometime in the early 1900's. It was a known problem at the time, hence the "rifle only" designations on the ammo box

It seems that the temperament and consistency of those early, slow burning powders used for "high velocity" .32-20 cartridges was sufficient to propel the bullet out of a sealed rifle barrel, but when fired out of a handgun the powders sometimes burned too slowly and the cylinder gap vented enough pressure that the powder did not achieve full burn in the barrel of a revolver, resulting in stuck bullets. When the next bullet was fired, a ringed barrel was often the result. I don't know whether this phenomenon was specific to the .32-20, but I haven't read anything about other cartridges being susceptible.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Well I voted for the .32-20 for its versatility and the fact that I've got a pair of them: Winchester Model 92 and a very pretty Smith Hand Ejector, 4th model in almost new condition. Loading for them is a trial on occasion due to the thin case neck on older brass, but Starline has seen fit to correct that complaint. Loads are more difficult to tune, I find, say versus a .38 Special or the .38 S&W, for reasons I've never fathomed. Ken Water justly famous tome on reloading, "Pet Loads" discusses his work with a Smith duplicate of my revolver and offers some suggestions to those similarly frustrated.

All that said, an old .38 S&W can still perk if time is spent and lead alloy bullets are sized appropriately for cylinder chambers and bore size. BTW, Starline has .38 S&W brass for sale and available as of ten minutes ago...

The one below, a Colt Police Positive from the '30s I believe, still perks even with 100 yr old ammunition. The gun was my uncle's pre-war Colt which he carried as a security gate guard for Bethleham Steel in Lackawana, NY. It came to me after his death 25 yrs ago and I've enjoyed toting it while walking my pointer through our spring and fall meadows. I treasure that old gun for the memories it drums up of an old man, who taught a young sprout how to cast a Phleuger bait casting reel without bird-nesting it. Thanks Uncle Bill...see you in awhile. Rod

Police Positive in .38 S&W with tgt shot at 7 yds, offhand. Five shots not six as noted on target.
S&W hand ejector, 4th variation, .32-20.





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That Hand-Ejector is stunning!

 

[ilbob]

I have a sw 33-20 revolver sn 107xxx. Not in all that great of a condition. Was previously owned by a security guard company in Decatur, il and carried by various guards for a lot of years and shows it.

I only shot it a few times after I got it. Didn't know if the 32-20 ammo I bought was suitable or not.

 

[ThomasT]

I voted 32-20 simply because I like 32 caliber guns and you can get rifles in the 32-20 chambering. I have also read that the 38 S&W was one of the most used guns in the inner cities a century ago and sent many people on an early journey to meet their maker. Supposedly it was the number one killer used to settle disputes long ago. I would love to have either one in a good condition hand ejector. I do have an I-Frame in 32 long. What a sweet little gun. Plus several other guns in 32 long and 32 mag.

Rifles chambered in 32-20 have been killing deer since the late 1800s. And what a great small game round it would make. Its like the 38S&W . Its a reloaders round and as such you can make it do a lot of things. Gil Sengal of Rifle/Handloader wrote an excellent article on the 32-20 and he found that the reason for so many 32-20s having bulged barrels was because the bullets were an inconsistent diameter and sometimes a slightly oversized bullet would get stuck in the barrel with low power loads. He said he almost did it himself writting the article and testing boxes of older bullets.

As for choosing a handgun in either caliber I guess it would depend on what type of handgun you want. If you want a field use gun I would go with a 32-20 with at least a 4" barrel. But if a you wanted a hideout pocket pistol the 38S&W would be my choice. I don't think any pocket guns were made in 32-20 anyway. But I could be wrong.