S&W 38 Special ?

[Defender00]

Knowing that there is knowledge of all types of handguns out here got a S&W question. I sent it to S&W but thought some one here might be able to answer it.

I have a question regarding the caliber of the model 642 revolvers.

SKU number 163810 is listed on the web site as a ".38 S&W Special +P" and SKU number 163811 is listed on the web site as a ".38 Special +P", no S&W. What is the difference in the two calibers? Why does one have the added "S&W" in the caliber description? Do they both use "38 Special" ammunition?

It seems as though S&W makes a definite difference between "38 special" and ".38 S&W special" on their web site. I was told that there used to be ammunition that was "38 S&W special" but it no longer exists and all new S&W 38's fire .38 special ammo.

Any help in understanding this will be appreciated.

 

[Albert Shear]

Both the same. The 38special was a S&W innovation. The predecessor to the 38S&W Special was the 38S&W. Just as a 357mag is an elongated 38sp, the 38sp isan elongated(read more powerful) of the 38S&W.

 

[JackM]

Careful. The .38 S&W is larger in diameter than the .38 S&W Special, but shorter. Base dimension of the .38 S&W is .3865" and the neck is .3855". The case diameter of the .38 S&W Special is .379, straight. Case lengths are .775" and 1.155". .38 S&W bullets run a couple of thou larger too.
The .38 Short and Long Colts are the same diameter as the Special, IIRC.

If it says .38 Special, it means .38 S&W Special. The .38 S&W is still around, but no new guns are chambered for it, as far as I know. Don't get me going on why the .38 Special shoots .358" bullets.

Bye
Jack

 

[Albert Shear]

You are right Jack, I forgot about the larger diameter bases on the 38s&W.

 

[Mike Irwin]

The .38 Spl. did indeed evolve from the .38 Short and .38 Long Colts.

When the .38 Long Colt showed to be such a poor performer in the Philippines, S&W decided to create a more powerful round by lengthening the case so that it could hold about 3.5 grains more black powder. They also increased the bullet weight 8 grains to the now traditional 158 gr. LRN.

S&W wanted to interest the military in the caliber as a potential remedy, but by that time the military was firmly committed to adopting a .45 caliber round.

S&W's revolver, the Military & Police (K frame) was the flagship for the new round, but the gun was also offered for sale chambered in .38 Long Colt.

To the best of my knowledge, only a few .38 Long Colts were made, and were the only S&W handguns chambered for the .38 Short or Long cartridges.

You'll see refererences to the following cartridges in reading materials of various ages:

.38 S&W Special
.38 Special
.38 S&W Spl.
.38 Spl.
.38 Colt Special
.38 Colt Spl.

There may be other names, as well.

All refer to the same cartridge.

 

[Defender00]

Understand but....

Thanks all for the information but it just don't make since why on the S&W web site you have to choose between ".38 special" and ".38 S&W special" and it list different models (all new) when there is no difference.

O'well, important thing is that I didn't goof and buy something that takes hard to find and expensive ammo.

TS

 

[JackM]

I haven't been over to the S&W site lately. Is your info from there or a catalogue? Anything is possible on a web page, and it's possible that the page designer is a hacker, not a shooter and doesn't know, and the copy for the 2 guns were written by different people.

Bye
Jack

 

[Defender00]

Web Site

When you go to the web site:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/products/firearms/select_firearm.cfm

Under the "select firearm caliber" it list as seperate selections:

.38 S&W Special +p

and

.38 Special +P

That's what is confusing to me. Why list them as two seperate choices under caliber if there the same?

 

[Blackhawk]

Defender00, see what I mean?

Welcome to THR!

 

[Defender00]

Blackhawk, sure do.

This is a great site and learning alot about alot. These BB can be as adictive as shooting. Nice thing about it is you get to read alot of peoples ideas and thoughts at your convenence.

Thanks again Blackhawk.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Thanks all for the information but it just don't make since why on the S&W web site you have to choose between ".38 special" and ".38 S&W special" and it list different models (all new) when there is no difference."

It's simply a case of the drunken monkey morons who put the website descriptions together not knowing their asses from a hole in the ground.

Surprising. Truly surprising.

Really, nothing other than sloth and ignorance should be read into it.

That sounds harsh, and it is. It's a case of the people at S&W not doing the jobs for which they're paid.

Considering that they haven't been doing that for many years...

 

[JackM]

Hmmm. There's 16 models listed as .38 S&W Special, including the 642 and 642LS. The only model listed as .38 Special is the 642 with Crimson Trace grips. It was likely added later and somebody didn't check the calibre lists. (Written before Mike's reply.)

I tried cambering a number of .38 S&Ws in my P&R M28-2. Some wouldn't start, some when part way and all (7) of a WW II military lot (MQ 43) chambered. Interestingly, a .38 Short Colt and a .38 Special wouldn't, due to oversized rims. Both were D.C.Co. make.

I wouldn't say I've learned as much off the web in 3 1/2 years as I have from reading gun rags for 45 years, but the gap is closing.

Bye
Jack