300 Blackout for Deer

[plodder]

In recent years I have taken to the idea of filling my buck deer tag with the traditional Remington 700 in 25.06 that has been my go-to rifle for more than 30 years, then utilizing something less traditional or more exotic for subsequent doe tags.

This year I pulled out my AR15 300 Blackout 10" SBR with silencer & cheap 1x red dot for day 2 of the hunt, expecting to use it for close quarters work in the brush & swamps because I had my doubts about the little cartridge's effectiveness at anything outside of 100 yards. I use Barnes TAC TX 110 grain bullets.

It turns out that I did not get a shot off in the brush, but sitting in my stand had a chance to take a shot at a trotting deer at an extended range. Almost without thinking I fired on the deer and dropped it. Paced it off and was shocked to count 286 yards. Probably a very lucky shot, but it gives me a new respect and confidence in the 300BLK as a viable deer cartridge.

Other than the inevitable flaming that will come my way for not using something like a 300 WinMag or 338 Lapua to effectively & humanely harvest deer, does anyone out there in THR land have a good or bad experience report for the 300BLK for deer this year?

 

[entropy]

Lucky shot. .300 Blackout is between .30-30 and .308 ballistically, so I'm not too surprised it dropped it. I would have whistled first to stop the deer before shooting it, but I don't shoot at moving deer if at all possible. I wish I had a .300 BLK to compare, but I don't. Wonder if Savage will make an Axis in it?

 

[eastbank]

i have a rem model 7 aac 300 bkl and its not between the 30-30 and 308. the 30-30 will shoot the same weight bullets close to 300fps faster than the 30 bkl. and thats not loading the 30-30 hot. and the 308 is off the charts speed wise with any bullets shot out of the 300 bkl. eastbank.

 

[Corn-Picker]

i have a rem model 7 aac 300 bkl and its not between the 30-30 and 308. the 30-30 will shoot the same weight bullets close to 300fps faster than the 30 bkl. and thats not loading the 30-30 hot. and the 308 is off the charts speed wise with any bullets shot out of the 300 bkl. eastbank.

Yep. The 300 BO isn't even as powerful as the 7.62x39, let alone the old 30-30.

Everyone has their own standard for what's an ethical deer cartridge at a given range, but put me in the "that was a stupid shot to take" camp. Even if you got the manufactured advertised velocity of 2350 fps (doubtful from a 10" barrel) you had 18" of vertical drop and ~650 ft-lbs of energy at 286 yards. Further, TOF on the shot was over 0.4 seconds, which equates to leading a trotting deer by about 3-4 feet. And you say you made this shot with a 1x red dot.

I've met some great shooters, I've never met one that would be able to consistently hit a moving pie plate at 286 yards with a 1x optic. You definitely got lucky.

 

[CraigC]

Looking to use my Ruger Ranch .300 on deer this season. Have no idea how to load it. What was the muzzle velocity? How did the bullet perform, did it expand, did it exit?

 

[trigga]

In recent years I have taken to the idea of filling my buck deer tag with the traditional Remington 700 in 25.06 that has been my go-to rifle for more than 30 years, then utilizing something less traditional or more exotic for subsequent doe tags.

This year I pulled out my AR15 300 Blackout 10" SBR with silencer & cheap 1x red dot for day 2 of the hunt, expecting to use it for close quarters work in the brush & swamps because I had my doubts about the little cartridge's effectiveness at anything outside of 100 yards. I use Barnes TAC TX 110 grain bullets.

It turns out that I did not get a shot off in the brush, but sitting in my stand had a chance to take a shot at a trotting deer at an extended range. Almost without thinking I fired on the deer and dropped it. Paced it off and was shocked to count 286 yards. Probably a very lucky shot, but it gives me a new respect and confidence in the 300BLK as a viable deer cartridge.

Other than the inevitable flaming that will come my way for not using something like a 300 WinMag or 338 Lapua to effectively & humanely harvest deer, does anyone out there in THR land have a good or bad experience report for the 300BLK for deer this year?

 

[stiab]

Wasn't there a thread in THR hunting section last year where a Texas deer outfitter said no more .300 Blackout for his customer/hunters due to poor results and lost deer? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[alientrainwreck]

I've got mine that I built, I haven't killed a deer with it yet but I now that it will make nasty holes in a 4×4 post at 200yds my load that I've been using is Sierra 125gr pro hunter over H lilgun. Max load

 

[bang_bang]

My son used my 8.5" pistol build on a doe earlier this year. The factory Nosler 125gr BT bullets passed through with little to no expansion. He shot her twice, 2nd shot hit both lungs and she bled out almost instantly. I hand loaded some 110gr Hornady SP to use on the next one, hopefully with better results. With that being said its more than enough if you know the limitations of the round and your skill.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I'm glad you harvested your animal cleanly but I'll never understand the obsession with 300 BO for hunting.

Want to run a pistol length ar with a heavier bullet and/or silenced?...then get a 300 blackout.

If you want to hunt deer or other similar sized game it's a different story.
I'd even use a 223 over the 300 due to velocity and its usefulness for premium bullets.

 

[1stmarine]

Wasn't there a thread in THR hunting section last year where a Texas deer outfitter said no more .300 Blackout for his customer/hunters due to poor results and lost deer? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Game will be lost and animals will be badly hurt. I have seen this so many times and it breaks my heart.

Some people think the whisper / blackout is superior to the 30-30 or the 7.62x39 but this is very far from the truth.
I am curious how any experienced shooter and hunter would arrive to such conclusion.

The 30-30 can launch a 180gr bullet at comparable speeds to what the whisper/blackout can launch a 125gr bullet.
Or a 160gr ftx faster than the whisper can launch a 110gr bullet.
Here one example.... http://www.hornady.com/store/30-30-Win-160-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/
This load will deliver a bigger punch at 200 yards than the blackout at the very muzzle.
Blackout from the same manufacturer...
http://www.hornady.com/store/300-Blackout-110-gr-V-MAX-Black/

In summary: The light for caliber 30 caliber at slow speeds are ideal for coyotes, small game and varmints not too far. They might be good for home defense
same way a 30 carbine can be good for this role too but if given other choices for hunting why not too choose something that doesn't have to rely so much
on the wounding and can put a real blow and shock on the animal? I am not saying the round cannot be used but it is rather anemic and there are many
other ways to harvest deer with some authority to produce fast humane kills.

 

[jmr40]

You got lucky. I'd wager that the vast majority of the time that is a minor wound. Seriously, the 300 BA is a step down from 223. It's only usefulness is being able to shoot suppressed.

 

[trigga]

I have been hunting with my 300 blackout build for the past 3 years and have been very pleased with the results. It's 90% cmmg with 16" barrel. I have never shot a deer past 75 yards with this so I can't tell you but as a reloader I use nosler 125 get ballistic tips chronoed at 2150-2200 fps. The minimum velocity or reliable expansion is 1800 fps, that is about out to about 175 yards.

 

[chuckpro]

I built a 10 inch pistol in 300 BA for my son to hunt during pistol deer season. Out of the short barrel the ballistics are much better than the 223. I limited shooting practice to about 50 yards and would not have let him take a shot further than that. We never had the opportunity to harvest a deer so I have no practical knowledge with this caliber.

 

[1stmarine]

Neither the 223 nor the Blackout should be our first choice for hunting deer.
Yes, they can be used to hunt deer, and this is a free country, but both less than the ideal option.
At least the 223 has the speed going for it but in reality we need to look at all variables
and match bullets to animal type and weight like generations of hunters have been doing for ever.
Also the idea that the whisper/blackout is "better" in short barrels is another internet myth the same as being superior to the 30-30.
Saying that something is better w/o a purpose and w/o being specific about what rounds we are comparing seems like a pretty arbitrary opinion
w/o much foundation.

 

[CoalTrain49]

It doesn't surprise me that a lot of people hunt deer with .223 and 300 BO because just about everyone owns an AR-15. I'm thinking some people only own that one rifle.

A long time ago people used to hunt deer with small under powered cartridges like the 25-20 and 22 Hornet because that's all they had. My neighbor who is 87 tells a story about a man he knew who poached a lot of deer. He said his preferred rifle was a 32-20 Winchester because it was very quite and didn't draw a lot of attention. Not for everyone but it worked for him.

 

[entropy]

I hunt deer with the .223,(Mine isn't an AR even) and I have much more powerful rifles. I choose to hunt with it, understanding it's limitations.

 

[1stmarine]

Because one can take the game with a caliber it doesn't mean it is the right caliber to hunt that animal.
the smallest deer on the small side might be ok taking care with distance and limitations but there are a lot of other cartriges
that are more suitable and more affordable whether it is in upper form or a simple and inexpensive bolt action.

For those interested in ethical hunting we have a few variables that we need to consider.

Type of animal
Body weight
Distance and angles
Owns rifle and shooters limitations

Then ballistically talking we need to match bullets to body weight and make sure we account for all this:

- Caliber / Frontal section
- Mass (Grain)
- Sectional Density
- Speed upon impact
- Specific terminal characteristics for proper activation upon impact.

When matching bullets to body weight and animal type we should follow the directions from manufacturers, conservationists,
experienced hunters and professionals. There is no need to get too creative and we should just follow some pretty well established directives.

When looking at the manufacturer data alone we see bullets that advertise low activation thresholds although what they don't tell us
is how poorly the results might be when we approach those limits. Lets take the 125gr BT or SST like described above with the
whisper / blackout case. These 125gr are designed as softer light jacket bullets. They are well performers light for caliber and often are
presented in 308 and 30-06 varmint ammunition. Their nature is explosive with broad wounding but sometimes results can be unpredictable
with jacket separation and fragmentation when hitting major bones.

One might choose a tad more grain and bonded bullet to obtain more consistent wounding. But then in the case of the whisper the
speed is very low and the sectional density still not great so the lack of speed has an impact on the overall efficiency.

You see, one could sacrifice a bit of sectional density in exchange for massive speeds and then rely on bullets that can use that speed
for quick and maximum activation that release lots of momentum very quickly. But if we arrive short in all variables with low SD,
low speeds and on top modest grain and frontal section then we are relying only on wounding potential and leaving lots of doors
open to wounding that might or might not work well under these limited conditions. That is why with the lack of speed and sectional
density people have relied on mass and frontal section to produce faster energy transfer and bigger wounding (ie: Thumping calibers)

I also love the 223 and I can be very accurate with it. In some places it is not legal to hunt and it has a bit to do too with the general
misinformation about good hunting bullets but also due to the fact that the cartridge can be limiting. Just upping one caliber to 6mm a huge
new assortment of white tail bullets appears whereas in 223 we have to make up for the lower grain.

I get it. People love their carbines and uppers and want to use them. Me too. But IMO we should be putting a bit more thinking if we can do
better for the sake of the animal and give that animal a fast kill w/o much unnecessary suffering. If you meet with experience hunters and vocational
conservation officers they are going to give you a few opinions about some of these caliber fashions. The laws in some places and quite relaxed and
in some others too much depending on where you are in the world but in many organized hunts they will not let you harvest the animal unless you bring
the proper caliber and rifle for the hunt.

Some might see this as unnecessary and even radical but there are reasons for it. I am happy to give more good reasons to have more killing power
at hand.

 

[Ibmikey]

Well i guess i am in the minority but the 350+ pound hog next to me went down with a single shot (125 TNT supersonic) from my AAC Handi Rifle at about sixty yards. He was moving at a quarter turn toward me and my shot was just inboard of the front shoulder.
I realize the distance limitations of the cartridge but out to 150 yards I would not hesitate on a deer sized critter given good shot placement opportunity.

 

[entropy]

Some might see this as unnecessary and even radical but there are reasons for it. I am happy to give more good reasons to have more killing power
at hand.

Well, when you were in the 1st Marines, you must not have been happy with having to use the .223 for a work rifle.
You have to consider the possibility that not every deer hunter's objective is 'If it's brown, it's down." I pass up shots with my .223 Axis that I might have taken with one of my Mosins, or even my AK. You'll really dislike my choice of bullets; 55 gr. Ballistic Tip Varmint. I chose it for 2 reasons; 1. I don't need to load separate deer and coyote loads, and 2. I saw what my son was able to do with 55 gr. V-Max's on deer at ranges from 10 to 225 yards 3 years ago. None of them went more than 50 yards, several were DRT. I'm a better shot than he is. (not by much, though.) The only animal I've taken with my load so far is, ironically, a coyote on last years' opener. DRT.
Bullet placement is 90% of success. A deer gutshot with a .416 will certainly die, but that is not ethical. I prefer to drill tiny little holes exactly where I want them in game. Makes the hunt a challenge, and I stay up for it with range practice and coyotes.
For Joe Six-Pack who shoots his RemChester 70/0 once a year the week before deer season and considers dinner-plate at 50 yards good enough, .30-06 or .30-30 is still the best choice.
Having said all that I still want a 7mm-08 for deer.

 

[1stmarine]

@entropy
you are right, realistic expectations, good placement are the first things to succeed.
My first goal in a hunt is not harvest the animal but to have a good time enjoying mother nature. I would be hunting and
glassing all the time just to be outdoors.
Anyway when you mention the coyote, the 223 is a great round for that role also goat. Even with the restricted assortment of bullets
the one thing the 223 has going for it is the speed and accuracy. 62gr solid Barnes are consistent performers at high striking
speeds no matter what caliber.
The 7mm/08 has to be one of the best balanced cartridges ever in the keep it simple category. It does everything the 260 and 308 itself
does at any distance and then a bit more and it can be loaded with anything from 120gr barnes that hit like a lightning bolt (amazing white tail load)
to 160-175gr bullets for long range that shoot longer and flatter than any of the 308 or 6.5mm variants.
I love the 308w. Have shot trucks of them but the efficiency of the 7mm is just amazing.
The only exception is the 308 loaded with 180gr bonded bullets for moderate range and for the largest game. the extra frontal section, mass and
momentum are good recipes for this type of use, same as the 30-06. Otherwise the 7-08 is perfect.

 

[Varminterror]

Here are a few spots where I have trouble, having built and done load work up for a bunch of 300blk's and having hunted with the cartridge for over a decade, and having done a lot of hunting and mid-range shooting with red dots...

The OP was surprised by the range and was using a non-magnified red dot sight on a moving animal!That's a problem for me, as there was a live animal on the business end of a slow moving cartridge, with a low precision optic. Even assuming a 1MOA field-capable rifle, this sounds like a fish tale to me.

Out of a 10.5" SBR, I'd expect you're smelling something around 2100fps at the muzzle. Even eyeballing the range to 275yrds or 300yrds, we're talking about 25" to 32" of drop. At 286, an eyeballed 275 would put you ~3" low, an eyeballed 300yrd estimate would be 4" high. But you didn't mention holding over at all - of course, holding dead on would have cost you a complete miss, even using a 200yrd zero (12" at 275, 19" at 300 below zero).

And of course, that relies upon a shooters ability to estimate drop within a matter of a few inches using a non-magnified optic, with a 2moa or larger reticle dot. At 286yrds, that dot would cover the entire vital area in itself - 2moa at 286yrds is 5 3/4", 3 or 4moa even larger. Being off by half of a dot would mean a miss of the vital zone entirely.

So not knowing the exact range, using a non magnified optic with a neary 6" diameter reticle, firing at a range where they most likely produce a 3" or larger group size at best, and a range where their cartridge is dropping an inch every 3 yards, the OP held over 28" and delivered this shot ON A MOVING TARGET?

If it did happen, it was dumb luck. Given time to range the animal and having the deer stop moving, AND given plenty of practice in field shooting positions at that range, I wouldn't condemn someone for taking the shot, but for a no-solution shot, this was simply irresponsible.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I think it's very difficult to estimate the success of an individual to take game humanly based on the cartridge. Of course there are cartridges that shouldn't be used along with some bullet types. State game laws have addressed this. In my state the .223 isn't legal. I'm not sure why but I would surmise that because people just can't be trusted to use fast twist barrels and heavier bullets, just a guess. The cartridge is extremely accurate and easy to be accurate with. Probably why the military uses it. As we all know, or should know, bullet placement is paramount. There are a lot of yahoos running around hunting all types of game with adequate gear and inadequate skill to be able to use it. I see it at the range every year when people come to our deer season sight-in held for the public. Makes me want to puke.

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, bullet selection is always of utmost importance but in the .300BO, it is critical. I 'was' going to use it on deer this afternoon but decided to test it in SIMTEST first. I'm glad I did because the Jamison and Remington subsonic 220gr loads did not expand at all. The tip didn't even come off the Jamison. Who makes a subsonic load that actually expands?

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Wasn't there a thread in THR hunting section last year where a Texas deer outfitter said no more .300 Blackout for his customer/hunters due to poor results and lost deer? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes, that was me. We have banned use of sub sonic .300 Blackout for deer after seeing it fail to kill a deer several time.

It is still a crowd favorite for shooting raccoons off the back porch.

Sub sonic .458 SOCOM has an outstanding record though and is currently our go-to for suppressed hunting.