308: AR vs bolt
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I am building a PSA AR10, but its not going to be a gun i take on long hunts
If I was going for Moose, and imagining the trails to cover, I would not want to lug around a 10-12 lb rifle
In that case, I would opt for a bolt
Or maybe, a 45-70 lever with leverevolution ammo
I hunt pigs in texas and like my 6.8 AR from Bison Armory
but its a light setup
If I was going for Moose, and imagining the trails to cover, I would not want to lug around a 10-12 lb rifle
In that case, I would opt for a bolt
Or maybe, a 45-70 lever with leverevolution ammo
I hunt pigs in texas and like my 6.8 AR from Bison Armory
but its a light setup
At distance it is more shooter than platform and your ability to read wind and hold consistently. I've shot my "AR10" only out to 200 but at that distance I can hold the sub MOA groups I also shoot at 200.
I don't have just an average rifle though and I get better results with most ammo than my very accurate Sako bolt rifles.
I don't have just an average rifle though and I get better results with most ammo than my very accurate Sako bolt rifles.
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For hunting in the mountains I'd go with a bolt gun. There is no reason to hump around a 12lbs 308. Heck my 375H&H weighs less than 10lbs... And while I love my AR and am slowly building an AR10 I have yet to find one that shoulders as well as my Winchester M70.
MachIVshooter
Member
Bolt gun. You'll get tired of the weight and bulk of a .308 AR. Even the lightest of them are 2 lbs heavier than an average bolt rifle.
That is wisdom. Remember the old mountain warfare guideline: ounces equal pounds, and pounds equal pain.
For me, nothing beats a bolt-action. AR-10s are nice, and fun to shoot, and some are very accurate. Still, I prefer bolts for reliability, ruggedness and accuracy. My favorite is my Winchester M70 Stealth in .308 Win with a Nightforce 3.5-15X56. Yes, it is heavy, but it also is very stable for long shots. The M70 Extreme Weather, or an M70 Featherweight would be really nice too, and far lighter.
MachIVshooter
Member
Because you don't see a lot of moose and elk in the Kansas fields, Texas plains or Georgia woods:
MachIVshooter
Member
A metric ton is 2,200 lbs. So yeah, there probably is a 1,500 lb moose and a 700 lb elk roaming around outside of their normal habitat
Elk range:
Moose range:
Mountain ranges:
Sock Puppet
Member
Never hunted moose so I don't know their behavior. Elk seem to either drop on the spot or take off at a good clip. My thought on a a super-quick follow-up shot from an AR would probably result in a poorly placed shot. All situations are different, though. I guess to me the reward is not there for an AR.
Now, if your spending money anyway, you could snag a nice wood/blue Browning BAR and have the best of both worlds.
Now, if your spending money anyway, you could snag a nice wood/blue Browning BAR and have the best of both worlds.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I see it this way and I don't care if the moose or elk is on a mountain side or standing on a plane as flat as Kansas. While the AR can be used for hunting and work just fine I would prefer a good hunting rifle like a Winchester Model 70, Ruger Model 77 MKII or Remington 700 BDL just to name a few. A rifle more aimed at hunting. Again, I am not saying an AR is a poor choice, merely saying I would choose the more traditional bolt gun over the AR. I have an AR10 and an M1A but will choose my Remington 700 BDL over the others to hunt.
Just My Take....
Ron
Just My Take....
Ron
bangswitch
Member
If I were considering a semi-auto for hunting, it wouldn't be an AR platform, although a service rifle of some type would work. My choice would be a M1A if you want a .308, but then there's still the weight issue. Mine weighs a tad over 10 lb, with a scope and sling, but my bolt .308 weighs 8 pounds, also with a scope. Accuracy is a toss-up between them, both are capable of taking a moose or elk beyond 300 yards if you wish or need to. Most newer bolt guns have internal magazines, a followup shot can be had within a couple of seconds with practice. An autoloader won't speed that up much, you've still got to get back on target after the recoil. At range, in mountain circumstances, you'd be likely shooting from one ridge to another, or in a situation where the report from a miss wouldn't reach the target (and spook it) until you were ready for a second shot. Hopefully if your first shot wasn't immediately fatal, it was at least severe enough to stop the animal. Otherwise, your second shot is moot and you've got a chase on your hands.
With even more practice, a followup shot might not even be necessary.
With even more practice, a followup shot might not even be necessary.
Jackal
Member
I prefer bolt's for hunting anything.
Maj Dad
Member
If your primary use of the rifle is for hunting moose and elk, I would definitely go with a bolt gun, but I would also consider a 30-06 to give you the ability to shoot heavy bullets with greater sectional density. The 308 starts losing usability at around 175-180 gr bullets because of intrusion of the bullet into the powder, and 200s are just about out of the question. If you're trying to compromise for the 308, I would still recommend the 30-06 - you can do everything with it that you can with the 308. And for hunting moose in the woods, I would want a 200 or even a 220 gr bullet that will punch through Bullwinkle. Just food for thought, and my 2 cents
A metric ton is 2,200 lbs. So yeah, there probably is a 1,500 lb moose and a 700 lb elk roaming around outside of their normal habitat
Elk range:
Moose range:
Mountain ranges:
Thanks for making my point with pretty pictures.
MachIVshooter
Member
You do realize these maps show the elk and moose ranges are a nearly perfect overlay for the Rocky mountain, Sierra Nevada and Cascade ranges, right? Plus the Appalachian range for some elk, and a dot indicating the Ozark mountains.
The only exception are some moose that have wandered down from the central Canadian territories into the great lakes area and the Northernmost parts of ND and WI.
All this, of course, detracts from the fact that 1) I wasn't the one who said mountainous terrain in the first place and 2) who really wants to carry a heavier rifle than they have to, whether traversing the roughest parts of the Rockies or the topographically constant terrain of OK?
Personally, I think it is just your mission to convince the OP he needs an overpriced and overweight HK autoloader to put suppressive fire on those armored and ferocious ungulates.
B!ngoFuelUSN
Member
Excellent infographic Mach4. I'll only add that there must be some function that looks a lot like:
Rifle choice = F(rounds fired, steps taken, terrain complexity, rifle weight).
Or simplified, rifle choice = F(rounds fired/steps taken) (clue: the lower the number, the lighter the rifle you should carry)
In both cases, if you're humping all over the planet, worse yet on steep complex terrain, to fire a handful of rounds, it makes sense to focus on a lightweight rifle. It may be tougher on your shoulder, take a bit longer to stabilize the follow-up shot, but you'll enjoy the endeavor and be able to sustain a better pace and/or a greater distance.
In that context, given the OP's pursuit of Elk in the zones outlined on the map, an AR would seem like the wrong choice. May I suggest a Tikka T3 Lite?
B
Rifle choice = F(rounds fired, steps taken, terrain complexity, rifle weight).
Or simplified, rifle choice = F(rounds fired/steps taken) (clue: the lower the number, the lighter the rifle you should carry)
In both cases, if you're humping all over the planet, worse yet on steep complex terrain, to fire a handful of rounds, it makes sense to focus on a lightweight rifle. It may be tougher on your shoulder, take a bit longer to stabilize the follow-up shot, but you'll enjoy the endeavor and be able to sustain a better pace and/or a greater distance.
In that context, given the OP's pursuit of Elk in the zones outlined on the map, an AR would seem like the wrong choice. May I suggest a Tikka T3 Lite?
B
A metric ton is 2,200 lbs. So yeah, there probably is a 1,500 lb moose and a 700 lb elk roaming around outside of their normal habitat
Elk range:
Moose range:
Mountain ranges:
I have a nice AR308 in the form of a POF and also have some quality bolt action hunting rifles. I'd use the POF for pigs, coyotes and any deer or elk that wander onto my property when I have a tag. For general elk hunting, no way. I'll take a bolt action and not one chambered for .308 Win. I'd take a 300 WSM and up for elk, and most likely .375 H&H.
carbine85
Member
I just bought a DPMS AR10 G2 Hunter. I had it out yesterday for the first time. So far it's proofing to be a great rifle. It's around 8lbs without the a scope.
ExAgoradzo
Member
I'd love to own a AR10!
My M70 (either the .270 Win or .338 WM) would be the rifle I chose to hunt anything larger than a whitetail, even if I owned an AR10.
YMMV,
Greg
My M70 (either the .270 Win or .338 WM) would be the rifle I chose to hunt anything larger than a whitetail, even if I owned an AR10.
YMMV,
Greg
henschman
Member
Most .308 ARs are heavy pigs, but not all. I wouldn't hesitate to take my M&P 10 moose hunting. It is more than accurate enough for that role, and is only a little over 9 lbs. with scope and all -- about 7.5 lbs. without. I would ideally want something with a little more power than .308 for moose, but when my uncle in Alaska was alive, he hunted with a .308 and killed one every year.
I am the one who mentioned mountains because when one talks about shooting elk and moose one is 98% going to find themselves in the mountains. Yes there are some flat land elk herds and moose can be found in MN and ME but for the most part we are talking mountains.
Either way a lighter rifle is going to be easier on the hunter for long days in the field.
Either way a lighter rifle is going to be easier on the hunter for long days in the field.
Welding Rod
Member
I have both.
Personally there is only one thing I would choose my 308 bolt gun (Ruger Hawkeye) for over my M&P 10, and that is traveling to California where the laws are so fouled up and constantly changing that as an out of stater you have almost no hope of knowing if you are committing a felony or not when bringing a gun in.
The M&P with an Aimpoint T-1 is pretty darn light for a semi-auto 308.
Personally there is only one thing I would choose my 308 bolt gun (Ruger Hawkeye) for over my M&P 10, and that is traveling to California where the laws are so fouled up and constantly changing that as an out of stater you have almost no hope of knowing if you are committing a felony or not when bringing a gun in.
The M&P with an Aimpoint T-1 is pretty darn light for a semi-auto 308.
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