.308 Garand spacer block

[BamBam-31]

I just had my Garand re-barrelled to .308. All that was done to it, however, was the barrel swap.

The smiths gave me a puzzled look when I asked for the little plastic spacer block to be installed (so no brain farts with .30-06). Where can I buy one, and is it difficult to install on my own? I think Fulton Armory sold one for $25, but it was steel and priced accordingly.

Also, do any other parts need to be changed, or is the barrel swap sufficient? Thanks in advance.

 

[David Roberson]

I don't understand the desire for the block. I've had two Garands in .308, and neither one had the block, nor did I miss it.

It's not like your gun could chamber a .30-06 round anyway if you forgot that it was a .308 and tried to put the longer round in it. I wouldn't worry about this. Tkae your Garand to the range and have fun.

 

[Backwoods]

Yeah, What David said is right on the mark. If you did load a clip of 30-06, the bolt wouldn't be able to rotate over to allow the firing pin to function. All you'd have is an over long round sticking out of the chamber and it would most likely eject itself when you pull the bolt back. If you find a block for chump change, buy it and put it in, if not, don't sweat it much. My two cents.

Don in Ohio

 

[hps1]

No other parts need to be changed when rebarreling to 308. The spacer block is not needed for the rifle to function.

I would be very leery of a slam fire if you were to try to chamber a 30-06 in a 308 M1. Backwoods is correct that the bolt cannot cam over to allow the hammer to strike the firing pin, BUT the Garand has a floating firing pin which "pecks" the primer every time the bolt slams home and the cross bar in the receiver cannot prevent this. Oversized cartridge (the 30-06 would certainly fit that description ), a soft primer, a high primer, a dirty chamber individually or any combination of the above can result in the rifle firing out of battery, resulting in damage to the rifle and/or injury to the shooter.

GI ammo uses primers with slightly harder metal cup than most civilian primers as an added precaution against slam fires. CCI now makes a military primer for reloaders.

My 308 Garand did not have the spacer block and after several thousand rounds started to jam, always on the 7th & 8th round. The bullet point would be jammed at about 1 o'clock above the chamber. Figured out that the last rounds were sliding forward in the clip allowing bolt to get a running start. Put in a block and cured the problem, but later figured out this was actually caused by a weakening op rod spring....applied too little pressure on the follower allowing last rounds to slip forward.

I got the spacer from Springfield Armory, but that was 20 years ago.

Regards,
hps

 

[dude]

.......if you ever want one, my smith makes a snazzy milled aluminum spacer and I can get them for cheap. I have one in my converted .308 Garand that he built and 'tuned' to shoot NATO X51 for me. (now my favorite rifle!!)

 

[gk1]

It's a safety device with no drawbacks, so why not install one?

IF you were to have a slamfire with a .30-06 in a .308 chamber, you'd likely be SERIOUSLY injured, if not killed.

In other words:

What hps1 said! Springfield converted one of my M1's also, but it was also quite a few years ago.

George

 

[Jim K]

The chance of slam firing a .30 round under those circumstances is near to impossible, since not enough firing pin momentum would have been built up. The real reason for the spacer is just as hps1 said in the latter part of his post - to prevent the short 7.62 rounds from sliding forward under recoil and jamming the works.

Jim

 

[happy old sailor]

just leave the '06's at home. end of problem.

when loading the clips, insure that all bases of cartridges are in contact with rear of clip. quick check of bullet noses will tell the tale. pressing the noses on a board will back them up where they belong. this goes for '06 too.

if cartridges are slipping forward, try a stronger spring under the follower. upward pressure keeps them in place.

only thing better than what you have is a conversion to handle the M14 mags. you really dont need this tho. you can practice rapid reloads at home using empty brass in the clips. can do it more rapidly than changing out a magazine.

watch your thumb.

 

[BamBam-31]

Thanks for the info, guys.

Got rid of all my '06, as only my Garand used it. Shooting buddy just bought a Garand, though. In '06, of course.

I seriously doubt either he or I would mix cartridges, but we may bring along friends to the range that are unfamiliar with the differences between our Garands. Instead of keeping a constant watch over them, I'd rather install a plastic insert. Less worries, and prevents the misfeeds mentioned previously.

Hey dude, how much for that block? Do I simply JB weld it in, or what?

 

[dude]

.......it just 'fits' from the bottom w/o any bond required

I'll get a price

 

[happy old sailor]

the spacer is not a safety device, it is to assist feeding in those Garands that dont like shucking the short stuff. this is rare and if you have this problem, your conversion needs a little attention. it is not a clip problem.

as for safety devices, none are infallible. the only one you have is between your ears and paying strict attention to what is going on. if the friends you take along are non gunners, turn yourself into a range safety official while they are shooting. dont just walk off and leave them whamming away. oversee everything, this includes loading the wrong ammo. ignorance is correctable, stupidity is for now and forever.

if your friends are stupid, get some new friends. if only ignorant, teach them. that is our job, teaching those that dont shoot to become shooters. you may have noticed: shooting and guns have become non PC. we need all the shooters we can get.

incidently, most 06 Garands will operate normally with 7.62x5l. makes the brass look funny as it is fireformed to the chamber and pretty much ruins it for reloading. no, it is not dangerous.

ever hear of the Navy Sleeve. it was an adapter that was placed in the 06 chamber to convert it to 308 the cheap way. it was developed when 06 was becoming hard to get in million round lots for use on our training ranges. it worked. ocassionally on the recruit firing range one of these adapters would come out with the ejected case. the recruit, knowing no better, continued firing. worked fine, just funny brass. as this continued happening the 7.62x51 Garand bbl was born. Sierra 190's loaded in 308's and an accurized M1 make one heckavu 1000 yard iron sight rifle. been there. then the Army figured out how to accurize the M14. was no better than the M1 just made loading ten simpler in the timed and rapid fire stages. then the Navy figured how to adapt Garands to use M14 magazines. i considered that a novelty and stayed with clips.

a long post. just giving some 50's and 60's history to you Garand lovers. i definitely love mine.

 

[AZ Jeff]

happy old sailor said--"then the Navy figured how to adapt Garands to use M14 magazines."

This is not correct. The US Military has NEVER created a general-issue variant of the M1 Garand that was magazine fed. They toyed with the idea with the T20 rifle at the end of WW2, but it never reached field issue.

The Navy first used M1's converted to 7.62 NATO, and now, they employ the M14, but never did they modify the M1 to use M14 mags.

 

[happy old sailor]

sorry jeff. we did it. they were not for general issue, just something we did as research and development. not many were converted as it was quite an undertaking. less than a hundred as i recall.

they were strictly for range use.

this was done at the U.S. Navy Small Arms Training Unit in San Diego (SATU). unit was actually acrosss the highway from the Naval Air Station Miramar. (Top Gun) all of us were distinguished or had legs up. some were double distinguished and one was triple distinguished. we did the wringing out on all types of guns, even mouse guns and shotguns. shotgun man was a world champion. i never could get too interested in it. those were the good years, then some beurocrat determined that sailors did not need smallarms as we had super carriers, nuclear subs, whatever, to do this work. budgets were cut to the bone and can you hear the death nell?

we, i say we as i was the LCPO and Chief Instructor at the unit from 67 to 71, and considerrably involved there earlier in the decade, did a lot of things, just as any group in research and development. some worked, some did not. the conversion did work. too many, like me, tried them and handed them back.
they were, however, a very interesting concept.

i would not advise anyone to get their M1 modified in this way. it would be a very expensive undertaking. clips are faster and as dependable as any piece of machinery can be.

i am primarily a handgun person, but, have fired highpower in competition from coast to coast. at taxpayers expense, of course.
used to love shooting 1000 yards in the wind. this is a real sheep/goat separator.

now i can hardly see the barrel of a gun, much less the sights.
i still teach shooting and had one student win the Arksansas State championship a few years back.

i encourage everyone to take non shooters to the range and allow them to see that this is an honest to goodness sport. not training street killers. if they never get a gun and shoot, they will at least understand us and there is a very good chance they will remember us on election day.

oops, old man rambling again.

 

[AZ Jeff]

Happy Old Sailor--

I think we both agree. I notice that you mentioned that less than 100 rifles were modified by SATU. I also stated that the US Military never created a General Issue variant that used M14 magazines. It seems we arrived at the same conclusion from opposite directions!

You are correct in that this modification is not trivial task, and involves a bunch of very permanent modifications to the rifle resulting in very dubious benefits.

 

[gk1]

The Navy developed the spacer block as a safety device for precisely the reasons I mentioned, according to Gus Fisher in this posting in "Lane's CSP Tips". I agree that it shouldn't be necessary, but if a piece of plastic can prevent you, your friends, or some idiot at the range from blowing up a nice rifle, and drawing negative attention to the shooting sports and Garands in general, then I think it's worth installing. If you don't think so, it's your Darwin Award...assuming that you're the only one injured.:banghead:

George

 

[happy old sailor]

George, i retired in 71, so did not know of the Navy inventing this little gadget. ty for this info.

i will, however, stand by my previous statement of paying strict attention to what is going on. also pay attention to what the persons on the shooting points next to you are doing. just common sense. gun safety means a lot more than where you point the muzzle.

any person that lets juvenile minded ppl flop their gun around with a lets try this and lets try that attitude deserves their own darwin award.

i am in no way afraid of guns. i do get real concerned about some ppl with guns. i have left a Forest Service range twice when a carload of idiots pulled up with loud mouths and waving guns around. i think any one of those could have tried to load whatever in their guns. maybe a really HOT handload they had configured. i just slink away.

if i remember correctly, every safety measure in that service was commissioned by an accident. so, with that thought, maybe someone did bust off an 06 round in a 308 Garand. my .02 still goes for paying attention. evidently, someone did not.

 

[BamBam-31]

Thanks for the advice, happy old sailor.

No, my friends are not idiots. Quite the opposite, actually. Some are shooters, some aren't, and I do watch what the newbies do very closely when we're at the range. Believe me.

Nevertheless, just as the four rules have overlaps, it wouldn't hurt to have the spacer as well. Peace of mind at minimal cost. I can't see a very good reason not to install one.

To each his own.

 

[Gewehr98]

I'd assume the Navy did a small production run...

sorry jeff. we did it. they were not for general issue, just something we did as research and development. not many were converted as it was quite an undertaking. less than a hundred as i recall.

Because they had by then figured out that the Italians in the Beretta factory had them beat by a decade or so in converting Garand receivers to 20-round box magazines, as evidenced by the BM-59 series of rifles.

 

[cheygriz]

hps1,

In reference to primers, the Remington 9 1/2 standard large rifle primer meets MilSpec. And they're usually much easier to find than the MilSpec CCI.

 

[hps1]

cheygriz:
Thanks for the info. For whatever reason, none of the dealers in this area seem to stock Remington primers (or much else, for that matter).

I have used Fed. 210's and regualar CCI primers in my m1's w/o any problems but latched onto a carton of the CCI mil. primers for the next time I load for the garand.

Don't shoot it much anymore......can't see the sights, darn it!

Regards,
hps

 

[happy old sailor]

bambam: my remark about stupid ppl was not directed at you or your friends. it was spoken as a generality and just my views on the subject. it, for certain, goes for me too. i'm sure your friends are quite intelligent. the carloads of idiots i referred to were from my own experience and definitely NOT my friends.

i offer my sincere apology for not making myself more clear. i fail at providing nuance to printed words.

and you are entirely correct in that there is no reason not to install the spacer. the Navy is big on safety and if they produced this spacer as a safety measure, you can be almost positive that someone, somewhere, has blown up a 308 Garand. probably with an '06 round.

when you get your 308 Garand settled in i think those considering a rebarrel would appreciate your views and analysis.

 

[happy old sailor]

gewehr-98: there is a multitude of things i am unaware of and BM-59 rifles is one of them. if Beretta put them into production i am sure they are worthy of the name. Beretta makes some fine stuff. and, i did not know that the Navy's production was a copycat. another note for the history book. ty

will bolo for a BM-59 and if the cost does not make me faint . . . .

 

[BamBam-31]

happy old sailor,


No apology necessary. I actually appreciate your experience and input on the matter.

Finally decided to order an aluminum spacer block from Brownell's. Thanks for the help, everyone.

 

[dude]

you will like that one!!!

(my gunsmith just sent off a box of them to Brownells)

 

[Handy]

How much does a rebarrel cost? Who should do it, or is it a basic armorers thing?


I got into a big debate on TFL about chamber adapters. Everyone kept insisting that when the adapter came out, the gun would explode. I couldn't see how excessive head space would do this.

Apparently, it doesn't.