.30SC 100gr FN-FMJ for Self Defense?

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GooseGestapo

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All the online (YouTube) data only tests the 100,115gr HP’s

What is the consensus on the Flat Nose FMJ?
With the .380 and .32acp, consensus is use FMJ.
How well will the 100gr .312” FNFMJ perform?

It’s $25/50. Vs $26/20 and some what more available.
 
1180fps from my 3.5”bbl. .30SC EZ
Meplat is 0.2”
SEE AVATAR

I can't give you any real world data on it, but I can offer some calculations that (with non expanding flat nosed bullets) seem to give reasonable approximations.

Based on the data you provided, the wound channel should be around about .59" in diameter. Penetration 10% ballistic gel should be around 30" - 31".

That's if I did the math right, and I'm going by memory for the formulas.

Too much penetration for my liking, but based on how much a .380 FMJ will penetrate, it's hardly surprising. The wound channel diameter isn't much either. Might help if it were moving 1250fps, but you've got what you've got.

Anyhow, all just calculations based off of simple equations that appropriate this type of thing. Nothing to hang your hat on.
 
IMHO, if the 9mm Luger has a fair to middlin’ rep as a SD round in FMJ guise, the smaller diameter.30 Super Carry certainly won’t be any better.

If fmj is all that’s on the menu, I honestly wouldn’t stake my life on either round. I’d go .45 ACP.

Stay safe.
 
I really think any flat point will do better than the pointy round nose ammo.

That is a lot of penetration but real life isn't gel and there's muscle and bone and arms that get in the way etc. Sufficient penetration is important and for many years before our fancy boutique 2 dollar a round jhp people defended themselves with whatever they had (lead round nose, ball ammo, flat points, wadcutters etc).

I remember hearing about some fmj 9mm over penetration issues with the NYPD where innocent bystanders were hit but I haven't heard or seen a bunch of data on civilian over penetration issues prior to the advent of readily used hollow points.

I think it's a good idea to be aware of the potential but people can get overly fixated on it as one aspect of self defense.

All things being equal the modern jhp should probably be in your gun for carry and home defense. If it's cost, just save and get a box or two. If it runs two mags it will likely run the third. In my humble experience, if a pistol is liable to choke on a certain hollow point design it lets you know pretty quickly.

Again painting I'm broad strokes, the pointier fmj looking jhp seem to be more forgiving on finicky feeding firearms (say that 5 times fast). Critical defense hasn't hung up in any of my guns, pointy with the little red plug to force expansion.

I think flat point fmj will hit harder and I would stock that for back up primary carry as well as woods carry if you camp or hike and may need to dispatch a critter from coon to cougar.
 
IMHO, if the 9mm Luger has a fair to middlin’ rep as a SD round in FMJ guise, the smaller diameter.30 Super Carry certainly won’t be any better.

If fmj is all that’s on the menu, I honestly wouldn’t stake my life on either round. I’d go .45 ACP.

Stay safe.

I may have drank the Kool aid as well, but if I was using fmj I'd also prefer the 45 acp.

At different times that is all I've had, a 1911 and ball ammo. It never bothered me, you're still making. .45 caliber hole through and through, and many smaller caliber hollow points fail to fully expand on the street and even testing and only get to around that after fully expanding. It's likely to still hit vitals from most any angle, or through barriers (doors etc). You don't know what the fight will look like, and 45 ball is versatile and until this year available and affordable.

Over penetration may be an issue, but it's moving slower anyway. Not sure how much steam it would have after plowing through a target. Finally, an aspect that is rarely considered as much as over penetration, is noise level.

Yes, any round fired indoors sans hearing protection is going to be bad for your hearing. But, there is a definite difference between a subsonic, slow heavy round fired indoors then say a 125 grain 357 mag!
 
Goose,

I have to say, I think that depending on the flat nose of a full metal jacket bullet for stopping power is a fantasy and a very bad idea.

The supposed stopping power of the meplat in hunting rounds is often touted, but you should look closely at those hunting rounds. The flat nose is usually near full bullet diameter and sharp edged or is at the front of a cone which sits at the front of a full caliber. sharp edged shoulder that will act like a full wadcutter, in the old KEITH style bullets. I believe it is the tearing action of the wide meplats and sharp edge shoulder at the base of the KEITH style coned bullets that do the actual damage in hunting situations.
Also, those rounds will usually overpenetrate which in a hunting situation is a plus, when out in the countryside. A full penetration means a hole going in and a hole going out to double the blood loss and blood trail.
It is a liability in an urban location.

Another problem is that the small meplats on 9m.m. and .32 caliber ammo are usually rounded at the edge, so they have little tearing or ripping action in flesh. That is the same problem as regular round nose ball ammo has.

Also, in my experience, flat meplats in semi-auto ammunition more often lead to misfeeds and jams. I stopped using WINCHESTER .32ACP ammo for this reason.

Say you actually get into a gunfight and it is fully justified, but you have an over penetration and either injure or kill someone. If you are sued, your justifying "CHEAP" ammo is something that a lawyer would argue shows your disregard for the safety of others and could even get you criminally prosecuted.
NO, I AM NOT KIDDING!
It would be the same if you let the brakes wear out on your car and have an accident. You could have prevented the problem and that can bring liability issues. Your testimony, that you were just trying to save money would probably not go over well with a jury.

Anything you post on the internet is there forever and can be found by a computer savvy investigator. What would be your justification in front of a jury? Hey, I just wanted to save money and did not think it would be a problem! Could you see an opposing attorney letting that lay?

Spend the small amount of extra money on a good brand of hollow point. If you ever have to justify your choice, you can use that to your favor. "Yes, your honor, I bought the same ammo that my local police use because I wanted a round that they had found was not a risk to innocent bystanders"!

You can usually shoot ammo of the same weight, like a 115 grain fmj for practice and an 115 grain hollow point for carry with a box of say 20 rounds to shoot a qualification drill and not have any issues.
For me, a 20 round drill would start at 10 yards with three double taps, then two 3 round failure to stop drills (two to center mass and 1 to the head) at 7 yards and then 4 rounds strong hand only (single handed) followed by 4 rounds weak handed only at 5 yards. You can vary this, but if you can do it, you will be able to show you can shoot your carry load adequately for self defense and compare it to shooting the same drill with ball ammo.

Good luck,

Jim
 
The flat nose is usually near full bullet diameter and sharp edged or is at the front of a cone which sits at the front of a full caliber. sharp edged shoulder that will act like a full wadcutter, in the old KEITH style bullets. I believe it is the tearing action of the wide meplats and sharp edge shoulder at the base of the KEITH style coned bullets that do the actual damage in hunting situations.

That tearing with the shoulder of a LSWC, only happens in paper. In gel, water, or flesh, it doesn't even touch anything. All the material in front of the flat meplat is blown out laterally when it is compressed, as it has nowhere else to go. This "spray" is what creates those disproportionally large wound tracks with such handgun hunting rounds.

I understand that Veral Smith (from Lead Bullet Technology) has tested this concept extensively. He was possibly the person who first discovered this effect, but I don't know that for sure.
 
That seems a bit like arguing silly semantics. A bullet absolutely hits human targets.

After hitting said target, the round often penetrates, crushes, and tears tissues..flat points do this better than pointy points (my point, btw).
 
After hitting said target, the round often penetrates, crushes, and tears tissues..flat points do this better than pointy points (my point, btw).
"Better" in what way? They do not "hit harder".
 
Weonghanded,

I will have to disagree. If the flat tip of a bullet did all the tearing, why did the NYPD, which was desperate to not use hollow point ammo for political reasons conclude that semi-wadcutter, non hollow points were no more effective than round nose ammo? They tried it and saw no improvement over the lead round nose bullets they had been using.

Also, why not use full wadcutters instead? You would have a wider meplat.

I think that anyone who examines the very small, flat tip on a 9m.m. will see it has very little in common with a .44 or .45 caliber hunting round. The comparison will be ever worse with a .30 caliber bullet.


Jim
 
All the online (YouTube) data only tests the 100,115gr HP’s
What is the consensus on the Flat Nose FMJ?
It’s $25/50. Vs $26/20 and some what more available.

Likely because most people prefer HP bullets for SD.
I agree with @WrongHanded over penetration, sacrificing much needed expansion in exchange for overpenetration.
I can find other ways to save $$ rather than the bullets that I'm betting my life on.
 
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