.380 FMJ For Self-Defense?

[LookAtYou]

What do you think of .380 FMJ, not Hollow Points, for Self-Defense? Do you think it has good enough ballistic properties? More than enough? Not enough? I plan carrying a Glock 42 with a +2 extension, for a total of 9 rounds of .380 Flat-Nose FMJ rounds.

.380 FMJ round has a .356" diameter btw.

 

[Obturation]

I use extreme penetrators in my g42. Fmj is fine. Let me break it down this way,
If you miss your mark with a 44 mag, was it enough?
If you hit the central nervous system with a 22lr , was it enough.
Is a 9mm really any more potent with an fmj than a 380 fmj- same diameter. ?
Do you think a 380 fmj will fully penetrate a human?
Do you think the military uses 9mm fmj because it doesn't work?
I feel fine about it. I don't subscribe to the internet terror of over penetration , a couple accounts of it possibly happening isn't the prolific issue you've been lead to believe , it's possible but extrodinarily unlikely.

 

[Obturation]

I guess the thing is, online some people will say .380 FMJ sucks, but a .45 ACP FMJ has a known track record. So really what they're saying is, .356" hole sn't enough, but .456" diameter hole is well proven. My curiosity is, where is that fine line between "meh" and "YEA!", or ineffective and effective. Somewhere between .356" and .456"? .53"? .6"?

Let's say the average .40 Hollow Point expansion is .61" diameter, and most people don't question .40 Hollow Points effectiveness. At what friggin point between .356" and .61" does it go from t"his could be iffy" to "Yup"?

No where.
A larger hole is always better but a miss with a 50 bmg isn't as good as a hit with a 22.
I also carry a 45, I like it because it makes bigger holes and is easy to shoot well. The internet is so full of bs. If a bullet expands it further increases the chance it'll damage something vital, that's it. All handguns are underpowered. If you feel like you need a bigger hole, shoot for the mouth- everyone starts off with a huge hole there already- some bigger than others.

 

[film495]

in normal times I sometimes carry 32ACP ball ammo, but have moved to 9mm as of late. people will poo poo all over ball ammo, but - hey, it works reliably and is better than a big stick. for someone sniffing around my house looking for trouble, I'd be pretty comfortable with a .22 in my hand, so - I guess it all boils down to personal preference and what risks you are managing for.

 

[cfullgraf]

I am of the opinion that hollow points do not expand reliably from a 380 ACP.

I carry mostly FMJ bullets in my 380 ACP guns. At least I'd get better penetration during the winter when folks are wearing more clothes and generally, my guns are more reliable with FMJ bullets.

 

[LookAtYou]

in normal times I sometimes carry 32ACP ball ammo, but have moved to 9mm as of late. people will poo poo all over ball ammo, but - hey, it works reliably and is better than a big stick. for someone sniffing around my house looking for trouble, I'd be pretty comfortable with a .22 in my hand, so - I guess it all boils down to personal preference and what risks you are managing for.

Yea, some people speak on "smaller calibers", like .380 and below, as if they literally just won't work.

 

[Cump]

I imagine your g42 will be ultra reliable, but my pocket pistol ammo decisions are based on what I know I can shoot well, and what functions without question in my gun.

 

[Kevinq6]

One issue with FMJ is it's a round nose and slips through tissue and is more likely to richochet (minor concern but still).

If you absolutely want to stop a determined attacker you'll have to break major bones or hit the upper spinal cord or brain to stop the attack immediately. I once read a story of a police officer unloading seven .45 Colt JHPs into the chest of a big man with a knife and he smiled and said he was going to cut the officer's head off... not the normal reaction but it happens.

From the testing I have seen the xtp meets the recommended 12+in penetration and still expands well. I would carry FMJ over any hollowpoint that penetrated less than 12in.

My choices in a Glock 42 would be:

90gr XTP
90gr xtreme penetrator
any hardcast
fmj (no cheap ones with bad primers)

9mm is a step up but I think .380 is an appropriate choice if your Glock 42 is more practical for you.

If that big guy is threatening you, you can also point it at his balls. He won't be afraid of scars but no one wants to lose their man parts. I got that tip from Masaad Ayoob... can't remember where but I believe it was in a video.

 

[WisBorn]

I have been carrying Sig FMJs in my 380. I want to try HST hollow points when I can find them.

 

[LookAtYou]

One issue with FMJ is it's a round nose and slips through tissue and is more likely to richochet (minor concern but still).

If you absolutely want to stop a determined attacker you'll have to break major bones or hit the upper spinal cord or brain to stop the attack immediately. I once read a story of a police officer unloading seven .45 Colt JHPs into the chest of a big man with a knife and he smiled and said he was going to cut the officer's head off... not the normal reaction but it happens.

From the testing I have seen the xtp meets the recommended 12+in penetration and still expands well. I would carry FMJ over any hollowpoint that penetrated less than 12in.

My choices in a Glock 42 would be:

90gr XTP
90gr xtreme penetrator
any hardcast
fmj (no cheap ones with bad primers)

9mm is a step up but I think .380 is an appropriate choice if your Glock 42 is more practical for you.

If that big guy is threatening you, you can also point it at his balls. He won't be afraid of scars but no one wants to lose their man parts. I got that tip from Masaad Ayoob... can't remember where but I believe it was in a video.

Thanks. You reminded me btw, that I plan on carrying Flat Nose FMJ rounds (Winchester 95 Gr), not the regular round nose.

 

[1KPerDay]

I once read a story of a police officer unloading seven .45 Colt JHPs

was he using a rifle??

 

[edwardware]

Before I upgraded my wife to 9mm. . . I read Lucky Gunner Labs report on .380, especially Re: penetration.

As a result, I loaded the hottest FMJ I had on hand, the Sellier & Bellot FMJ. Never a hiccup, cheap, and fast.

 

[Clipper67]

I carried a Bodyguard in .380 for a few months, found a decent buy on a Kimber Micro 9, and that was the last I saw of the .380. I do carry both mags (oh, it only came with one, but found a pair at a decent price on EBay, gave one to a close friend for his wife's Micro 9) No a 9MM isn't the most effective round for SD, but it's better than a .380 or a .22 LR, yeah shot placement is important too, and my .45's are a bit too big for easy carry and conceal.

 

[Monac]

If you are going to use FMJ ammo, there isn't much difference between the various pocket auto rounds. You get more penetration as you go from 32 Auto to 380 to 9mm, but not much else. 380 pistols can be smaller than 9's, and have a bit more penetration than 32's, so use it if you like.

The real question to me is why the OP is insisting on FMJ, but he is, and I don't want to open THAT can of worms one more time.

 

[481]

What do you think of .380 FMJ, not Hollow Points, for Self-Defense? Do you think it has good enough ballistic properties? More than enough? Not enough? I plan carrying a Glock 42 with a +2 extension, for a total of 9 rounds of .380 Flat-Nose FMJ rounds.

.380 FMJ round has a .356" diameter btw.

In a low-power caliber, such as the .380ACP, that lacks the ability to reliably produce 12 inches of penetration with a JHP that exhibits robust expansion, I'd opt for a FMJ. For example, 95-grain JHP at 900 fps that expands to 0.535'' (~1.5x caliber) will penetrate to a maximum depth of 9.8 inches.

In the .380ACP, a 95-grain FMJ at 900fps produces about 18.75 inches of penetration which is at the upper boundary of the recommended range of penetration (12'' - 18'') by the FBI test protocols.

The .380ACP is fine for what it is so long as one bears in mind its limitations.

 

[defjon]

Flat point vs round nose , I like that you mentioned that.

I think the flat point matters, and between adequate expansion Vs penetration you must have enough penetration.

 

[Kevin Rohrer]

Just say "No" to the .380 for self-defense. There are better calibers, all of which begin with a "4".

 

[LookAtYou]

In a low-power caliber, such as the .380ACP, that lacks the ability to reliably produce 12 inches of penetration with a JHP that exhibits robust expansion, I'd opt for a FMJ. For example, 95-grain JHP at 900 fps that expands to 0.535'' (~1.5x caliber) will penetrate to a maximum depth of 9.8 inches.

In the .380ACP, a 95-grain FMJ at 900fps produces about 18.75 inches of penetration which is at the upper boundary of the recommended range of penetration (12'' - 18'') by the FBI test protocols.

The .380ACP is fine for what it is so long as one bears in mind its limitations.

IMO, I feel like the only limitation is capacity. I feel that there should have been a 10+1, G42 sized .380 by now. In fact, I think a 10+1 G42 would be the perfect CCW option for me, when I can't conceal a bigger 9mm.

 

[chicharrones]

Not that it matters to most, but in short barrel pocket guns in .380 or .32 ACP, I use FMJ.

 

[toivo]

Just say "No" to the .380 for self-defense. There are better calibers, all of which begin with a "4".

Like ... 4mm?

 

[wlkjr]

Just say "No" to the .380 for self-defense. There are better calibers, all of which begin with a "4".

Can they be pocket carried unnoticed?

 

[American Finn]

To the original OP; I have carried Hornady American Gunner HPs in my Glock 42 and they have proven to be ultra reliable and easy to control; now, this being said, I live in the Detroit area and good luck finding any .380 ACP ammunition anywhere (heck, lump in 9mm Luger, .38 Special, 9mm Makarov, or any other handgun caliber besides like .454 Casull). If FMJs are all you have then that's what you need to go with. If I remember there is an old adage that goes something like "it is better to have and not need than to need and not have; i.e. any gun is better than no gun at all".

And Merry Christmas to all of you at The High Road!

 

[Fiv3r]

I always love how these threads start out:
"I carry a .380. Whats the consensus on fmj vs jhp? Penetration vs expansion?"

"Get a .40/.45/punt gun."

I like fmj for my pocket .380s. The mechanics of the small gun are fickle enough to not invite potential feed issues. I usually go with a BG380 because I like the DS capability, but my Ruger LCP II actually shoots better and is less picky about what I feed it.

Currently I am not carrying a .380 most days. Its due to the fact that .380 ammo is hard to find and expensive. I usually don't worry too much about what is in my pocket. If I can belt or coat pocket carry, I usually bring along a .38 special or small .45. Both of them are cumbersome enough that I sometimes just go with a .22 magnum in my pocket and call it a day. I know. I know. Dead man walking. Don't care.

I look forward getting back in the swing of things and carrying a .380 again. For me, it balances the convenience of a pocket gun but has the pep and reliability of a center fire over a .22 magnum. I like the fmj because it will feed and get a bit deeper than the jhp (in very general terms). When I am going that small, reliability is at the top of my list. I could stoke the gun full of magical bullets that shoot 25" deep and explode, but that won't do me any good if the gun jams before it goes bang.

 

[halfmoonclip]

The G42 lets you run about any .380; the XTP and Gold Dot do offer a fair tradeoff in expansion and penetration. The flat-point FMJs will run in a G42, but not in everything.
For the armed civilian, the P365 makes all that moot, tho' the G42 still gets carried now and again. Lotsa shots, service caliber, reliable, small enough to hide without drama.
Probably no reason to worry about the .380.
Moon

 

[Sistema1927]

I find that most of the time I can carry a 9mm (Sig P-365). In it I carry HST HP ammo.

Most of the time, but not all the time. There are some occasions when the largest gun I can carry is a KT P-32. When I carry it, or if I had to carry a .380, I would have it loaded with FMJ due to the fact that in those calibers in short barrels you cannot get reliable, consistent, penetration with a HP.