35 Remmington

[ExAgoradzo]

Have an opportunity at a Marlin 336.
If I buy it I want it for my 10 & 12 yr old boys for their first 'deer' gun.
I have a 270 and a 44 mag, so this would be 'in between'.

Concerns:
1. Is this really a 'step down' in recoil from the 270?
2. Should I just go with a 30-30 because of availability of ammo (don't reload yet...).
3. I have other guns I'm saving for, so part of me just says give them the 44 and save; but this is an opportunity so...

Thanks.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The .35 Remington is not a step down in recoil from the .270 -- recoil will be a bit stiffer in the .35 than the .270.

For the boys, I'd go with the .30-30.

 

[Gordon]

+1 to what Vern said. A 336 .35 Rem has a pretty good kick.

 

[Sam1911]

I wouldn't expect much less recoil from a .35 Remington than I would from a .270. I'd put them all on-par with the .30-'30 at about average mid-level centerfire rifle recoil levels.

If you have a .44 Mag. rifle, I think that would make a dandy 1st deer rifle.

.35 Rem. ammo is available lots of places (any local gun shop, most Wal-Marts, etc.), so unless you're used to searching at the local gas station the night before the hunt 'cause you didn't get ammo, I'd not worry too much about that.

 

[sugarmaker]

Big difference between 10 and 12 years.

I have a 336 in .35 Rem, and a few '94s in various calibers. All are about the same as far as recoil, weight, give or take. A "standard" lever gun is really hard for a 10 year old to shoot unless it's off of a bench - it's really tooo big for their little bodies. They will flinch at the recoil. Recoil is a bad thing to introduce a kid to early on, IMO.

12 year old may still struggle with offhand but from a supported position they can manage the gun weight / recoil, reliably cock the gun, cycle the action, etc. given some practice.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

I really appreciate your comments.
I saw this gun and started thinking about them. My 10 year old is too young to hunt deer in CA, but wanted him to have a 'real' rifle. Right now he's getting better with the 10-22 and the mini 14. My 12 year old handles the 44 (Marlin 1894) fairly well. You are right about being fluid with the lever. His hands just arent big enough yet.
Thanks also for info about the 35. I'll just wait myself till a good 30-30 comes available I've got buddies I can borrow from till then.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

BTW: I checked and our Walmart has 0 35 Rem. CA is a different place. I was in Boise once and they had a Rem 700 30 06 for sale. I thought I was dreaming...
The guy who is selling the Marlin said that 35's are much more popular back east: must be places like PA.

 

[Sam1911]

Yup! Sure is popular here! Not nearly so common as .30-30, but I think the liquor/convinience store, sub-shop, ice cream and gas station 'round the corner from my office keeps it on their hunting shelf.

 

[StrutStopper]

I've got a 336 in .35 Rem. I would suggest going with a 30-30 for the kids. .35 is hard to find here as well.

 

[Walkalong]

You can reload the .35 Remington with Trail Boss and .357 bullets for light recoil practice. You can do the same with the .30-30 and light .30 cal bullets. A case full of TB and a 110 .30 Cal bullet in a .30-30 gives around 1200 FPS with very light recoil. Great for kids to learn with.

I have a lever gun (94) in .30-30 and one (336) in .35 Remington. The 94 is very light and easy to manage for a kid. The Marlin is a little heavier.

 

[Walkalong]

Oh yea, if you want to step up the power some from Trail Boss without going fullbore, you can use Accurate's 5744, or IMR 4759 for "reduced" loads.

 

[Fiv3r]

I had an older .35 Remington 336 and it was a nice rifle It was a bit of a jam-o-matic with the ballistic tipped ammo, though.

Plenty o' thump down range. I sold it for something more practical as I'm a plinker, not a hunter. .35 Remington is more expensive and harder to find than 30-30.

That said, it's popular enough around here. Lots of Whitetails. I wouldn't call it common, exactly, but every sporting good shop stocks it. Has a bit more kick than 30-30 in my opinion.

 

[kanook]

Get the 35 and start to reload.

You can do really light loads to full blown.

The stock can be shortened and added to as needed with little cost.

I use the same load of unique with a 180 grain XTP for my 35 Rem and my 357mag and it will drop a deer

 

[Vern Humphrey]

To do a simple quick check on comparative recoil, multiply bullet weight by muzzle velocity.

.35 Remington: 200 grain bullet at about 2,000 fps = 400,000.

.270 Winchester: 130 grain bullet at about 3100 fps = 403,000.

Just about a wash, although the heavier rifle will have less recoil, and the design of the stock can attenuate or accentuate recoil.

 

[wombat13]

This table might help, although there may be an error because it disagrees with most of the posters here and shows .35 rem as having considerably less recoil than .270 win.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

If you know the charge weight for a given load you can use an online recoil calculator (just google "recoil calculator").

 

[Sam1911]

11.7 vs 10.8? Meh. Like I said, 'bout middle-of-the road medium center-fire rifle recoil.

There would be much more difference in felt recoil caused by one rifle having a better recoil pad, a better-fitting stock, or the shooter having a coat on one day and a t-shirt the next, than there is between the two, inherently. Neither is a .223 or .22. Neither is a .458 Win Mag.

Also, as I said, they're both pretty darned close to a .30-30.

 

[wombat13]

11.7 vs 10.8? Meh. Like I said, 'bout middle-of-the road medium center-fire rifle recoil.

There would be much more difference in felt recoil caused by one rifle having a better recoil pad, a better-fitting stock, or the shooter having a coat on one day and a t-shirt the next, than there is between the two, inherently. Neither is a .223 or .22. Neither is a .458 Win Mag.

Also, as I said, they're both pretty darned close to a .30-30.

I think you are looking at the recoil velocity column. The .270 loads in that list show about 17 ft-lbs of recoil while the .35 rem load shows 13.5. I guess it depends on "close." I haven't shot both, so I'm sure you are correct that there is not much actual difference.

 

[Gordon]

I HAVE A PRETTY SLICK wINCHESTER 94 yOUTH 16" 30-30 that I bought for CQB and took a partial class with it before my thumb fell off after loading 100 rounds! My kids are all grown up. My grand kids are almost all grown up, I live in Central Calif - $300 and it's like new with a ghost ring peep added. It has an 11 3/4" LOP so fits 11 YO up. PM me.

 

[Sam1911]

I think you are looking at the recoil velocity column.

Yes, indeed. I shoot a lot of different cartridges, and perhaps the lines of distinction become too blurred.

I tend to think of recoil in terms of "minor," "average," and "major," which doesn't leave much room for shades of grey in which someone might find a sweet spot or breaking point between what's o.k. for them and what isn't ok.

Perhaps that isn't fair, or the way a smaller stature person might react.

 

[rori]

I am a great fan of the 35Rem and of the 270. The 35 has lots less recoil than the 270 and is on a par with the 3030 in a model 94 win. May be a little stiffer but it also comes in a rifle thats a little heavier than the model 94.Dont pass it up you'll be sorry down the road. I have never found a place that doesn't sell ammo for it but there is probably an exception but it isn't hard to find. I wish it was near me as I would buy it in a heartbeat if it was in good condition. Good Luck Frank

 

[ExAgoradzo]

Rori--you'd run over and buy it...but this is CA, it'd take you 10 days to get your hands on it! LOL!

 

[GooseGestapo]

IMO, the .35 kicks a bit less than the .270. A lot has to do with the flash and blast from the .270 due to the slower burning powder having a lot more excess oxidizer that gets consumed as it hits the air.(aka "jet" effect) But, I havent' shot any factory level .35 (or .270) in a long, long time. My .35's tend to run a bit "warmer" than factory loads. Puts a real "thumping" on deer and pigs out to ~200yds. In the s.e.usa, the .35 is as popular as ever or even more so. Can't find the 150gr Remington loads like you used to could, but 200gr Federal, Remington, and Winchester is usually around. If you can order it, it's only a little more expensive than .30/30. But, it should be; more brass, powder and lead..... You really do get what you pay for......

I too suggest that you get a basic reloading kit and learn to reload along with your boys. Kinda like a "merit badge" project with the "Scouts"..... You'll learn somethings about your boys too. Hopefully they won't learn any new "vocabulary" from you in the process....
(had a friends son tell his mom the new "words" he learned from his dad at "scout" camp.... hilarious story, at least the way the "mom" told it....) I digress...

My brother taught his son to reload with the .30/30. First they spent an afternoon casting the bullets with a Lee mould I gave him (.309" 150gr FN). They then lubed them with Lee liquid alox- didn't bother with sizing or gas checks. Not really needed. Next day, they loaded the .30/30 brass they'd previously prepped. They used ~7.5gr of Unique. Loaded a 2lb Coffee can full....
Next day, they went shooting..... After seeing "pop" shoot several, Jr. thought, hey, this is about like the .22.....
Went through 2lb coffee can in the '94 in about 30min...(~200rds!).
Jr said, drats! now we get to go load them again!!!!

Son qualified tops in his company w/M16 and M9 in basic training when he enlisted in National guard MP unit in 1988...... Saw action in Iraq in '91, Again in '03... Recently retired from guard w/20+yrs. Never know what an afternoon with your boys will result in........btw, he was 9yrs old and had no problem with M94......

 

[ExAgoradzo]

Goose,
As an Eagle Scout (class of 1989) I appreciate your merit badge analogy.

As a matter of fact, I have a press (an old one that a friend gave me but he said it still worked fine), but no dies as of yet. Another friend is going to help me load some 44mags, & 270s.

I plan on buying both those dies, then it looks like now I'll need some 30-30.

I love THR, I put out a question just because I'm thinking of it and I get 20 answers from guys who know tons more than me! I guess there are some redeeming things about the Net after all...

Thanks again everyone...

 

[barnetmill]

If the choice is between a used 30-30 in a 94 winchester or a used .35 Rem in a marlin 336. I go with the 336 since in my experience the marlins are accurate and the model 94's that I have shot are not. I think winchester used poor barrels myself. If recoil is a issue then use the 150 grain loads in the .35 rem that hardly seem to kick at all.

 

[Jim Watson]

From Ol' Chuck's chart, there aren't many 8 lb .270s out there by the time you take a bolt action rifle and hang a scope and mount on it. I think recoil will be less, but in a rifle awkward for Junior to handle.

A factory load .35 Rem (or .30-30 for that matter) lever action is an unpleasant kicker because of the light gun, crooked stock, and narrow buttplate.

If you want a boy that young to enjoy shooting and hunting, I think you should be prepared to shorten the stock to suit his build and provide a recoil pad for comfort.