35 Whelen vs 338-06

[Okie_Poke]

Hello all:

My first rifle, which I still have, is a Remington 700 ADL in 30-06. I have since purchased another 30-06 that I prefer and am considering having my old 700 re-barreled into something else. The something else I think I want is a 35 Whelen, mostly because I think it's cool.

However, when I look at selection for available bullets, I'm wondering if the 338-06 would be the "better" choice. For example, at the time of this writing, Midway only lists 3 jacketed bullets as being in stock that are suitable for the 35 Whelen, and one of those is a 180 grain bullet I'm not interested in. Midsouth likewise lists three such bullets, again including a 180 grain in which I'm not interested. The real choices are 200 grain TTSX, 200 grain Hornady Interlock, 250 Hornady Interlock, 250 Norma Oryx. Those are all decent choices, but it's not a lot of choices. For .338" bullets, by contrast, Midway and Midsouth both currently list five hunting bullets between 200 and 250 grains, which include 8 different bullets between the two sites. No Nosler anything in stock for either, unsurprisingly I guess in our current market conditions, but unfortunate because a Whelen with a Partition seems like it'd be a good match.

I can find acceptable dies for both cartridges. I haven't seen head-stamped brass in stock for either in a while, though 30-06 brass is not hard to find (I have plenty). Primers are primers. So, from a component standpoint, bullet selection seems to be the main difference.

I plan to handload probably exclusively for either cartridge. But, I do like the option of shooting factory ammunition "just in case." Over the years, I've seen 35 Whelen in stock more often than 338-06. Right now Midway has two Barnes loads in stock for the Whelen and nothing for the 338-06. Gunbroker has a few more options for 35 Whelen, but only one very highly priced option for 338-06.

I might also play with cast lead bullets again some day, which in my mind fits better with the Whelen.

I know component and ammunition availability change over time and that right now is not a great time to find components or ammunition for the less-popular cartridges and calibers. But, I've been thinking about these particular cartridges for years at this point, and the current mix of ammo and components is pretty fair comparison of what I've seen over the years---bullet selection somewhat favors the 338 while factory ammo (and head stamped brass) favor the 35 Whelen.

After writing all of this out, I think I'm still leaning toward the Whelen. However, I would like your input. If you haven another suggestion, I'd be happy to consider that too, though I don't really want to change the bolt face so any magnums are out. I've considered a fast-twist 25-06, but it's awful close to my 6.5 Creedmoors. I've also considered a 280 AI, but I have a 30-06 for that use case. Both of those are still in consideration, but I think I prefer the idea of a medium bore thumper, even though I don't have a real need for one. In any event, help me out. This will be my first custom/semi-custom rifle build, so I'm (over)thinking through it a lot before I do it.

 

[Bwana John]

9.3mm x 62mm

 

[courtgreene]

I shocked myself with where I landed on this. Bullet choice is almost always my main concern, but with all the factors you laid out and the fact there are at least some acceptable bullets available, I’m thinking wheelen.

 

[Okie_Poke]

9.3mm x 62mm

I get it. If one is going thumper and not going 375, it's more thumper than the Whelen. But what is component availability like in your experience? I haven't studied this one like I have the other two, though I note that quick Google search shows head-stamped brass in stock a couple of places.

Edit: Also, what is the bolt face for it?

 

[mavracer]

IMHO bullet technology has killed off a lot of the advantages either has over the 30-06. If you want a 35 Whelen build one it's not about need.

 

[Roverguy]

I voted 35 Whelen. But should really be Brown- Whelen to get that more certain headspace on a more well-defined shoulder. Not AI, the shoulder is moved slightly forward and slightly wider to more positively headspace. No significant increase in powder capacity, velocity or recoil, just a more positive shoulder to headspace on. Quite a few people view the 35 Whelen headspace issue as a current non-issue subsequent to it having been standardized as a SAAMI cartridge, so that’s worth considering as well.

 

[jmr40]

Your 30-06 loaded with 200-220 gr bullets will outperform either, at least until you get to 275 gr bullets in the 35 Whelen. I've had both, the only thing they do that a 30-06 won't do is kick you a lot harder. Once I figured that out, I sold both.

If I absolutely had to do something different, and go bigger, I'd go with 9.3X62. Now you're shooting bullets heavy enough to show some advantages over 30-06 on bigger game. It is simply 30-06 necked up to 36 caliber, same bolt face. You're probably more likely to find factory loads for 9.3X62. That is a relatively popular cartridge in Africa and is legal for elephant in some countries.

But ask this, do you REALLY need anything that big? I'd go 280 AI personally. But I also realize sometimes you just have an itch for something, and that itch has to be scratched. I scratched that itch and moved on. You may have to do the same.

 

[Varminterror]

It’s hard to ignore the fact the 30-06 really does more than either.

BUT…

I really like the idea of an 18-20” 338-06 as a mid-range hunting hammer.

 

[Goosey]

I would go with the Whelen because I think it's just cooler, and it's a larger step in diameter from the .30-06. As for the 9.3x62 vs the 35, it depends on which bullet selection you prefer, heavier or lighter (eg, 180gr .358" TTSX).

 

[Dustbowl]

Choosing between 338-06 and 35 Whelen is a hard choice. When I built mine I went with 35 Whelen. Looking back there wouldn’t have been much difference.

 

[Elkins45]

35 Whelen gives you the option of a lot of good cast bullets for plinking or deer hunting with reduced power loads. The RCBS 200 gr flat point is an amazingly accurate bullet and I would happily use one at 1800 fps+ for whitetail.

 

[JCSC]

It’s hard to ignore the fact the 30-06 really does more than either.

BUT…

I really like the idea of an 18-20” 338-06 as a mid-range hunting hammer.

my friend has one and it is a really nice rifle. Built on a mauser and a good barrel.

 

[DM~]

For BIGGER big game I chose the .338-06, for everything else I'd choose neither.

That was MANY years ago, I still have the .338-06, the 35's are long gone!

DM

 

[Crosshair]

Bullet selection for 338 is relatively poor for a 338-06. Most bullets are expensive match bullets or otherwise aimed at the long range 338 Magnums. 35 caliber gives you all sorts of options. 35 caliber pistol bullets are relatively inexpensive and make for great low-recoil and plinking rounds.35 caliber rifle bullets, though generally not the most aerodynamic, will still work just fine out to at least 300 yards. Cast bullets are also a better option with 35 caliber.

 

[adcoch1]

I chose 35 whelen, because I like the versatility of the whelen overall with cast bullets for heavy, slow loads, and the great performance from 250 grn jacketed for really big game. Will it be better than an -06? No, but it's a lot of fun and close enough, and reduced loads in the whelen have lots of bullet options. And it'll do it out of a decent barrel length.
Not so much with the 338-06 which needs max velocity to expand the factory jacketed bullets...

 

[35 Whelen]

Between my father and I, we have owned 1 ea. 338-06 (Remington 78-based custom), 1 ea. 338-06 A.I. (Remington 700-based custom), 2 ea. 35 Whelen's (Remington 700 Classic and VZ-24-based custom) and 1 ea. 9.3x62 (CZ-550 semi-custom). Since I have a range at my home, I did almost all of the load development and testing for all of them.

Before I begin, I'll state that the only thing a 30-06 can do as well or better than any of these calibers is make a smaller hole and possibly shoot a bit flatter, which given the similarities in trajectory, is completely irrelevant for anyone who owns a laser rangefinder and knows how to use a ballistics chart.

My father bought the CZ550 9.3 then had it re-stocked in (I believe) Turkish walnut and had express sights added.



To my eyes it's a stunning rifle and I'm glad he never got around to taking it elk hunting because a few trips up and down the mountain in a saddle scabbard and pushing through scrub spruce would've scarred the beautiful stock. As to the caliber, meh.... I think as a caliber for hunting the western half of the U.S. it really doesn't hold any advantage over a .33 or .35 caliber rifle. Most of the load development was with 286 gr. Hornady's and something about the stock made recoil brutal, and for some reason the trigger guard beat my knuckles mercilessly. Pass.

Between the 338-06 and its Ackley Improved counterpart there was little practical difference, so Dad went with the 338-06 simply because he preferred the Model 78. Originally we settled on a 210 gr. Barnes X (pre-TSX) running a bit over 2700 fps. Although another 100 fps was attainable, this particular load was the most accurate. He shot his first bull ever (at the age of 71 at 11,000 feet!!) but the bullet performed poorly and he used my Whelen to finish it.

My Whelen is built on a VZ24 action and an old local 'smith who specialized in building silhouette rifles barreled it with a 24" Douglas Premium with a 1/12" twist. He chambered it so that the headspace was at minimum and lapped the bolt lugs prior to chambering the barrel. Because of the propensity for bad weather at the altitudes we hunted, I bedded it into a synthetic stock and mounted a simple 4X Burris scope on it. Originally my load was a 225 gr. Sierra SBT @ ~2700 fps with which I shot a deer or two and maybe a hog. I switched to a 225 gr. Nosler Partition and took a nice 6x6 with it, but wasn't really satisfied with its performance, so I finally switched to a Barnes 225 gr. TSX running a bit under 2700 fps and grouping like a varmint rifle-



This particular bullet is capable of incredible penetration. This is the bullet from Dad's first bull that enter the south end and came to a stop in the right shoulder.



I used the same bullet to take a bull at 360 yds. as he angled away below me in a canyon. It entered high behind his right shoulder and exited low in the left side of the neck.

The other Whelen, the 700 Classic with a 4X Leupold scope, is probably my favorite. Its magazine is longer than that of the Mausers which means bullets can be seated out a bit further which allows for a bit more powder in the case. The rifle, due to its standard barrel dimensions but larger bore, is really quite light and carries easily. The downside is that recoil can be a bit uncomfortable, especially with 250 gr. bullets. I worked up a load with a 250 gr. Speer SP and stopped when I reached 2500 fps and 1" 100 yd. groups. Dad shot his second and final bull with this set up at 10,500' and at the tender age of 74.



Between my father and I, we shot five mature New Mexico bull elk, one with a 338-06 and four with Whelen's.

Between the 338-06 and the 35 Whelen, I don't think there's enough difference to matter. The only reason I would pick the Whelen is the almost limitless bullets that are available from 90 gr. cast bullets for small game to 280 gr. bonded bullets for the really big stuff.

If you're only hunting things like deer and hogs, you don't "need" either of these, but wanting them is certainly OK too.

35W

 

[Okie_Poke]

@35 Whelen, Thank you for the detailed response. Nice rifles

I appreciate all the feedback here. I know I don’t NEED anything bigger than my ‘06. This is purely a want because it’s cool. I would take the rifle elk hunting, though I’m sure I’ll build it heavier than my ‘06 and may not carry it as often as a result. If I ever get to hunt something bigger I would take it then too, but I have no concrete plans.

 

[someguy2800]

I would choose the 338 because there are more bullets with decent ballistic coefficients than in 335. 338 and 35 both suffer the same problem that most of the bullets are only made in production runs every year or two. You just have to set up in stock email notifications on a couple of the retailers like Graf's and Midway and they will eventually be in stock. That .358 speer 180 grain bullet for example has been out of stock for like 2 years now and they just happened to come back in stock when you were looking. I use it in 358 yeti and 35 Remington. So getting bullets for either one will not be a problem if you are willing to wait and be patient.

 

[sage5907]

I think the 338-06 offers a slim advantage over the 35 Whelen and that is it has a longer effective range because of the higher velocity and bullet choice. My view is tainted because I have never owned a 35 Whelen. I do have two 338-06 rifle and I have really fallen in love with them. Where I hunt most of my shots on deer are around 200 yards and a 300 yard shot is not uncommon. My rifles really like the 180 Nosler Accubond with a heavy charge of Reloader 15 and they performs at long range even better than a 30-06 and surprisingly they are very easy to hit with. With a high shoulder shot they knock a deer down quickly. I understand that if you were hunting in black timber for elk the 35 Whelen would probably be the choice but for longer range deer hunting or even elk hunting the 338-06 would probably be a better choice. Those AccuBond bullets penetrate and expand just like in the advertising pictures.

 

[DM~]

Bullet selection for 338 is relatively poor for a 338-06. Most bullets are expensive match bullets or otherwise aimed at the long range 338 Magnums.

Every bullet made for the .338 Federal and all the 200, 210NP and 225 grain bullets work just fine in the .338-06, and they don't have to be pushed to MAX velocity to work either. That's a LOT of choices!

For bigger big game there's plenty of 250's and the tougher ones like the 250NP work just fine on brown bear and big moose.

How do I know this? It's because I've been shooting a .338-06 since the 70's on everything, including brown bear and moose. I've also shot a truck load of deer with mine too.

Why people keep repeating the above statement is beyond me...

DM

 

[Robert]

I voted for 35 Whelen, just because I want one. But if I were to buy another medium bore rifle, I'd look hard at a 375 Ruger. It does everything 30-06, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and 375 H&H will do in a standard length action.

 

[someguy2800]

I don't need a whole bunch of bullet choices. I just need one good one. Maybe 2 or 3 suitable options so I can try them and pick the one that shoots best.

 

[DM~]

I voted for 35 Whelen, just because I want one. But if I were to buy another medium bore rifle, I'd look hard at a 375 Ruger. It does everything 30-06, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and 375 H&H will do in a standard length action.

Robert, WHY stop there? Get a 378 Weatherby, it will do even more!!

So what if the action is a tiny bit longer! lol

DM

 

[Robert]

Eh, that gets up into why not just get a 404 Jeffery or 400 NE range. I mean, if I'm gonna get thumped I might as well get a 40 cal... Plus I already have a 375H&H...

 

[DM~]

I don't need a whole bunch of bullet choices. I just need one good one. Maybe 2 or 3 suitable options so I can try them and pick the one that shoots best.

FINALLY, some common sense!

I never understood a person needing 20 or 30 bullet choices. I normally only shoot one or two different bullets in any of my rifles, in fact I prefer one all "around bullet", to switching bullet weight/designs.

In my "go to" hunting gun I've only used it to hunt with one brand/style bullet and that's since the early 1980's.

BTW, I didn't vote, I really don't care what someone else buys.

DM